Wandering….

[Joe Mc]

KPotter44,

A suggestion: Replace the track bar with the 3rd gen conversion, they have serviceable bushings and no ball type joint on the frame. There's also a "Steering Stabilizer" that bolts to the sway bar busing mounts and has a bearing that supports the bottom of the sector shaft coming out of the bottom of the steering box. Check Geno's garage for these parts. I replaced (warranty) 3 POS OEM track bars before I converted to the 3rd gen style, that was well over 150k miles ago.

 

[AEdelheit]

KPotter44,

A suggestion: Replace the track bar with the 3rd gen conversion, they have serviceable bushings and no ball type joint on the frame. There's also a "Steering Stabilizer" that bolts to the sway bar busing mounts and has a bearing that supports the bottom of the sector shaft coming out of the bottom of the steering box. Check Geno's garage for these parts. I replaced (warranty) 3 POS OEM track bars before I converted to the 3rd gen style, that was well over 150k miles ago.

While the 3rd gen upgrade is much better there is no way to get the geometry where it should be with the 3rd gen bar, that why Thuren made an entirely new 2nd gen track bar kit instead of the 3rd gen conversion kit.

 

[KPotter44]

JoeMc, I have one of those installed already. I really liked the design and believe it does stiffen up the frame somewhat. AEdelheit, I have been looking at those Thuren track bars. According to them your truck will never drive like it should unless you install that. At $575 plus shipping that is going to have to wait for a bit.

 

[AEdelheit]

JoeMc, I have one of those installed already. I really liked the design and believe it does stiffen up the frame somewhat. AEdelheit, I have been looking at those Thuren track bars. According to them your truck will never drive like it should unless you install that. At $575 plus shipping that is going to have to wait for a bit.

Little background I was the shop manger of Thuren for 8 years , when the 2nd gen track bar first started the intent was to build a conversion bracket to use with the existing 3rd / 4th gen track bar. While doing R&D it was noticed the track bar was just too long and there was no way to make it right so a whole new setup was built. There are many conversion brackets and they do function find but you will have more feedback and bump steer then the proper 2nd gen track bar kit but as you noted is comes at a cost.

 

[BigPapa]

Little background I was the shop manger of Thuren for 8 years

Didn't know that. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Big E]

Oh yeah, and now the drivers side axle seal is leaking. No one in my County does this job. Have an appointment at The Rear End Shop in Santa Rosa to get those replaced. No doubt when they did the ball joints they bumped the seal and we’ll deal with them later. $1200 - $1500 for that job.

If the axle is pulled without draining the diff, oil will spill into the axle tube. It may not be obvious until later when it eventually starts coming out later. There's a very good chance you don't need to have the seals replaced.

 

[Ozymandias]

If the axle is pulled without draining the diff, oil will spill into the axle tube. It may not be obvious until later when it eventually starts coming out later. There's a very good chance you don't need to have the seals replaced.

That's a very good point!
Or the axle is bent, like mine was, leaked with brand new seals because the shaft was slightly out of center.

 

[KPotter44]

So the truck is at the shop in Santa Rosa for the axle seals. While he’s got it apart he will do the passenger side ball joints and the axle u joints. He said the drivers side u joint was a little loose and that sometimes causes the seal to leak. And he will replace the pinion bearing and seal. When I get it back I will replace the remaining 3 piece tie rod and everything will be new. Question. When I take it to get the alignment, do I go with the Thuren specs?

 

[petersonj]

When I take it to get the alignment, do I go with the Thuren specs?

Yes!

- John

 

[Joe Mc]

While the 3rd gen upgrade is much better there is no way to get the geometry where it should be with the 3rd gen bar, that why Thuren made an entirely new 2nd gen track bar kit instead of the 3rd gen conversion kit.

My Bad, should have mentioned "Adjustable" 3rd gen trackbar conversion.https://www.genosgarage.com/product/bd-1032011/trackbar-rebuild

 

[AEdelheit]

My Bad, should have mentioned "Adjustable" 3rd gen trackbar conversion.https://www.genosgarage.com/product/bd-1032011/trackbar-rebuild

You can only make an adjustable track bar soo short , it still wont be right.

 

[KPotter44]

OK, so everything, with the exception of the track bar, has been replaced. Ball joints, tie rods, axle u joints, steering box, and new tires. Took it to the shop in Middletown yesterday for an alignment and they set it to Thuren specs. No change. Truck still does what it wants. Off to the left then off to the right. Both hands on the wheel at all times. Taking it to a small shop in Upper Lake on Thursday. They do a lot of suspension modifications there and he sounds willing to tackle this job. We’ll see.

 

[fest3er]

Did you replace the front suspension bushings (on the trailing links)? They're only good for 100k miles at most. Vigorous prying with a 6' crowbar won't show anything; I don't think a static test would show any wear anyway. Attach a video camera (GoPro?) under the truck aimed at the trailing arms, start recording, and drive the truck. I can all but guarantee you will see unwanted motion at the bushings.

Did you verify the stabilizer bushings and mounts? Varying 'roll' angle between the body/frame and the axle should also affect steering.

 

[Ozymandias]

You know that new balljoints often need some time to break in.
You also didn't mention yet what brand of parts you always throw at that truck.

I'm still a strong believer that your ball joints are the culprit.
New doesn't always mean good. I once put Moog in mine and Truck was all over the road, even 5000mi didn't help to wear them in. Replaced with Carlis. Perfect truck.

 

[Ozymandias]

There is really not a lot involved for a live axle truck to go straight.
Nothing loose, nothing binding, good alignment, that's it.
The rest is physics and geometry.

 

[Tuesdak]

As was suggested... How far can you turn the steering wheel before the input shaft to the steering box turns? Bind it, the input shaft to the box, by hand to see if something is loose in the steering shaft. Then look at "New" steering box for same: how much from center does the wheel turn before "something" happens at it's output? May not be specific to Dodge, but, a loose rag joint on the steering shaft made my 1993 GMC IFS a drunken sailor going down the road even with a new front end. Next old IFS GM pickup I got it was the first part changed and biggest improvement before doing anything with a worn out front end. The rag joint is hidden by a plastic shield so it wasn't in plain sight earning me some expensive hard won experience...

It took a "load" to see the steering wheel turn without moving the input shaft to the steering box via the rag joint slipping and hitting the joint's safety stops. It did not 'slip' without a load on it. Wasn't easy to see as the joint turns with the rest of the usual "slop" in everything rocking the steering wheel.

 

[KPotter44]

fest3er, are those bushings pressed in? Is it a big job to replace them?
John, typically how many miles does it take to wear in new ball joints? I have no idea what brand ball joints the shop in Santa Rosa used, but I will find out. Funny thing though, it’s acting the same as it did before the ball joints were replaced.
Tuesday, I will check that out. If I’m understanding you I will secure the steering shaft at the box to see if there is any movement at the steering wheel?

 

[Ozymandias]

There is a common misunderstanding of how a steering actually works.
It is not the drivers input at the steering wheel that makes it go straight - it the geometry of the whole front axle/steering linkage that makes it go straight.
That's why the steering itself re-centers after a turn, it wants to go straight by itself.

Sure there shouldn't be excessive play between steering wheel and steering gear - but I really expect at least ONE of the three shops that worked this vehicle to check for ANY excessive wear from the wheel all the way down to the knuckle.
Heck even rusted axle u-joints could make the steering wander.

Right now and all the way back they just use the parts cannon to try to solve it by throwing money into a hole.

 

[Diesel Gunner]

EMF ball joints. Not only will they solve all ball joint related problems, they do not require “wear in”, are greaseable. rebuildable, and are the only manufacturer that I have ever had respond back to a text message at 8pm on a Sunday evening. Ball joints that are tight when brand new are junk. Think about it. Have you ever assembled anything that was extremely tight? Then had to run it to wear it in? EMF ball joints are also adjustable if you ever need to. Look them up, study all of the info on the website, and call them if you have questions. Absolutely the best service I have ever received from a company.
I have no doubt that Carli has a good product. I have their trailing arms on my truck. Very good stuff.
IMHO it is a waste of time and money to fart around with Moog, or any of the other junk that is available. Buy once, cry once. If you don’t agree, fine. It is your truck and your money.

 

[fest3er]

fest3er, are those bushings pressed in? Is it a big job to replace them?

It's not so much a big job as it is time-consuming. You might need to remove/loosen the shocks, then lower the axle to remove all spring tension. (I don't know if the axle will be stable with the springs pushing the shock to full extension; so I'd loosen the shocks to avoid that possibility. OTOH, maybe keeping the shock/spring intact might keep the axle fairly stationary.) You might need to press the link bolts out, especially if they refuse to turn; PB Blaster may be your friend.

A friend replaced mine at around 190k. They really didn't want to come out even with a press; he basically had to burn out the rubber, then remove any remainder. But the truck'd been in winter road salt most of its 16 years at the time.

Steering shaft? Locate the slip joint, have wife gently and slowly rock the steering wheel while you hold the (steering shaft) joint. Also check the 'flex' joint at the top. If there's play, you might want to replace the shaft.

And it wouldn't hurt to check the *rear* suspension. If the rear of the truck can 'sway' side-to-side, that will also affect steering. (This isn't very likely, but rear hangers are known to wear and fail at times.