Competition Want to et started in Pulling, need advice

[MMiller]

Propuller

Nothin to speak of for diesels out here. They haven't become very popular out here yet. The guy with the 2wd is turning heads out here, and getting people upset. Look in my pics and see some poor pics of it. He would be real intersted in your auto. Do you talk to any of those guys from down by Peoria to see what there gonna do this year? I have there phone numbers if you are interested.



Michael

 

[JoshPeters]

I won't argue that the manuals are more previlant out in the pulling arena. IMHO, a properly built Auto will be a great choice, at least in concept. Being able to get a good start, no slipping clutches, all gears up and down. I'll keep you guys posted on how I do, if I break anything etc. I plan on pulling a few times this summer as time permits.



Josh

 

[jtisdale]

After seeing Haisleys "ROCK HARD RAM" pull I think the Pro Fab reverser with a Pro Fab drop box would be the way to go. :-laf But, they also run a 4 disc clutch.

Back down to reality, I think a well built auto is ever bit as good as a twin disc, at least around my HP level. (which isnt much):{

 

[JoshPeters]

My first moments home when I wasn't busy, I watched my Pulling tapes. I belive (correct me if I'm wrong) a Blue Dually, with wide front tires, and it's twin with a grey paint job, that I swear shifted when they ran. Are these trucks Autos? Both trucks did quite well. I belive the blue one took first in the street class?



Josh

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I don't remember which trucks I saw with automatics this year... but there were a few of them that did pretty decently.



Matt

 

[cjohnson]

There are a lot of guys here that know much more about pulling than I do, but I will give you what I have learned for what it is worth. If you are building a purpose built puller from scratch, I would say the manual is the only way to go. Here is why. As people have said, wheel speed and rpm are key. The only way to maintain maximum rpm hence maximum wheel speed is with a manual. The key is to have the proper clutch that can take this type of treatment(maximum rpm launches). There are some great autos out there that are tough and that can take a load of power, no question. The problem with them is something that is inherent in an automatic transmission, that is that the converter has to start locking up at some point in order to get the truck moving, and this inevitably starts happening long before maximum rpm. Therefore the maximum rpm launch can not be had. Yes you can shift with an auto, but the fact remains that you can never leave the line at maximum rpm with an auto, you can't achieve that until your wheel speed is up to the point that allows the rpm's to be there. With a manual and the right clutch, you can leave the line on the rev limiter in as tall a gear as your power level will allow and never fall below maximu rpms. JGheen, in respnse to your question in particular - If you want to get the most out of your truck in a sled pull, you simply have to have a clutch that is designed for this purpose. Others will work, but as has been said, you will have to baby it out of the hole and pull a shorter gear than you could otherwise. Forget about what the manufacturer says regarding holding power, if it isn't designed to slip excessively, it WILL die regardless of its holding ability. There a few good choices out there now for clutches that will work well for pulling, and also as daily drivers, reasearch and choose wisely. I pull a 13,000 lb gooseneck horse trailer and give it hell hooked to the sled - mine works great.



All this being said, there are a number of auto trucks out there that would clean my clock at pulling, but all other things being equal, the manual wins. Just think about it.



Craig

 

[jtisdale]

^^ I agree. ^^

 

[DSteinel]

yes the blue truck that won the street class had an Auto

 

[jtisdale]

With the sticks, the best gears to pull in (if you have the clutch and the power) is 4th low in a 5speed and 5th low in the 6speed. Its one to one, straight thru, no counter shafts to worry about, and stay on the low side of the transfer case, its a lot stronger than the high side. I know a few guys that pull in 2nd high or even 3rd high, but they are not concerned with transfer case life.

Once you hook, you'll be hooked. :-laf

I upped my power this year and changed tires, so I have to start all over trying to figure it out.

 

[JoshPeters]

I understand that Wheel Speed is the key, but off the line when you have the least weight to drag... isn't that a good time to have traction and get that thing rolling with as little wheel spin as possible? I'm a rookie... I'm just asking. After watching at Muncie, I saw both... the autos hooking up and once they got rolling start to spin. The Manuals would spin 99% of the time. The converter locking up is a good point, but the new converter from Goerends I'm running gets very very tight at high RPM's. (WOT in either 3rd or OD when the converter locks it only drops about 50-75rpm) This seems to me to be a great benifit, once the engine gets loaded down and starts to loose RPM, it looses some of it's "lockup" but also starts to multiply torque keeping the wheels spinning as well as dropping gears. Is this a good thing in a pull? Like I said I'm a rookie... just asking questions... .



Josh

 

[cjohnson]

Heres my feeling on this, I'm no pro puller but have put a lot of thought in to this myself.



All the points you raise about autos are valid, and to some extent make sense. But there is a point about the manual that still puts the advantage in its hands in my opinion. Best I can explain is this. Suppose you are leaving the line with the auto, lets assume your motor turns 4,000 rpm. You come up on the converter while on the brakes and start building boost, depending on your stall, lets say your convertor starts locking up around 2500 rpm at which point you release the brakes and start the sled moving. At that point, the power of your motor needs to be able to overcome what drag the sled is putting on it to achieve maximum rpms. And many guys have enough power to do so. Some don't, and they will never see maximum rpm. As autos get stonger and better and the builders get more creative, they continue to find ways to make them work better. But no matter what, the fact remains that with a manual and the right clutch, the truck can establish, and maintain, maxumum rpms, wheel speed and power with the ability to "feed in" the drive to the wheels. Assume the same motor as the auto scenario only with a manual. Now you bring rpms up to redline - 4000 rpm, and slowy start feeding some clutch out, as boost builds to peak levels, clutch continues feeding out, wheels start turning, all the while rpms never fall below 4000 - assuming proper gear was chosen and all else is well. Not to mention, the really big power trucks can spool those HUGE turbos better with the manual because they can establish very high rpms before ever loading them at lower rpms the way a auto has to.



It is a strange concept that I don't fully understand myself, but it obviously works as the strongest trucks in the country run clutches. Not to metion, sled pulling with an auto and shifting with that kind of load is hard on any transmission no matter how it is built.



Someone who knows more will likely put me in my place - but there you have it.



As for manuals spinning the wheels more initially. That is likely. As I mentioned, they are leaving the line full tilt, and one can only be so smooth getting the clutch out with the motor at redline. Besides, if the wheels are spinning, less chance of things breaking.



Anyway, as I said I'm no pro. But this is how I have come to understand it after spending quite a bit of time thinking about it. But there are lots of guys who do pretty well with the autos, have to wait and see whats next.

 

[MMiller]

Josh



I would have to say you are on the right train of thought. Wheel speed is key, but you also have to make the truck hook to the track. At the level I pull at, and most diesels pull, you gotta get it hooked up. I don't pull like the super farm tractors with cut tires and tons of wheel speed. I have seen many times where a truck that comes out of the hole smooth and hooks up will beat trucks with more motor and tires spinning all the way down the track. Last year at a pull I got around a number of trucks with a lot more motor then I had. BUT we were on a very tacky track, the big motor guys couldn't get their trucks lit with out wheel hopping all over the place. I came off the line smooth, my 440 is built for torque, and it won't rev over 6,000 rpms. I got hooked to the track and pulled further then the guys with 8500 rpm race gas motors. On a slick track they will beat me every time. My truck does well on tacky tracks or heavy sleds. But if its a drag race(literally) then they beat me.



I know this instance is a little differnt because its gassers, but the theory is the same. 70 mph wheel speed don't mean a thing if you can't get the sled off the line.



Michael

 

[JoshPeters]

This is great reading guys. I'm learning. CJohnson, I fully understand your theory. It's very logical. With the Manual it seems to me that you are taking advantge of your HP, not your torque(as much). Which is what Micheal is saying with his puller. I find this very interesting, HP is good for loose tracks where wheel speed is nessissary. Torque is good for tacky tracks where wheel hop is an issue.



Common guys..... who else has an opinion on this?



This is great stuff!



Josh

 

[AHelmich]

i had an 02 eth 4. 10 and pulled in 3rd low it had bosch 275s 4" banks and a stock clutch and it didnt slip but now have a 04. 5 6speed with 3. 73s and 4" lift and 35" tires and it really stresses the clutch pulling in 3rd low