Warning to 5th wheel tailgate trucks (one tons only)

[HGreen]

I'm also from Virginia, 2 weeks ago I was in Lynchburg at a truck place, VaDOT dropped by to check out some pickup trucks with single car trailers. It so happens that earlier they had written one of guys a ticket for the no cab lights thing while pulling a trailer over 80 inches wide, he was hauling a mud bogger. He happened to have reqular (non-truck) tags and was legal weight wise. I start asking some questions about the rules and he says that any truck pulling a trailer over 80 inches wide must have the cab lights. In Virginia, a truck is defined as any vehicle designed to haul goods over 7500 pounds empty. They also define a pick-up as vehicle 7500 pounds and under empty. With regular tags (pickup) you don't have to worry about combined weights so long as the trailer tagged GVW is not exceeded. The officer got caught up in the definitions, couldn't get a clarification on the radio, thus, voided the guy's ticket. He promised to let me know what rules we have to follow and I haven't heard from him yet.



I really don't want to add cab lights, don't like drilling holes in a perfect roof, so I thought about making a light bar with the reguired lights that I would mount when ever I pulled my trailer. It looks like things are going to get messy very quickly.

 

[TowPro]

I ordered my 3500 srw and ordered it without cab clearence lights because I don't like them. It is an option on the 06 3500 SRW trucks. Yes I tow a camper and I think its 96" wide but not sure. I am not worried about getting pulled over.



I also ordered it with the rear defroster because I hate sliding windows!

 

[donnier]

I realize that this is regarding the 3500 series trucks.

My question is, will they be looking at the 2500 SRW the same way?



With regards to the vehicle plates, what about the owners that have personal plates on their trucks? Will these be sited as well?

 

[klenger]

I don't see any way that this can apply to any SRW trucks.

 

[AMink]

My 06 3500 came with no lights on the tailgate or the cab. Does this mean I need to put them on? I don't tow a 5er, but do pull a TT. I have to agree with the statement above... what's the point of lights on your tailgate if you have a 5er on and no one can see them anyway? Also, what is the point of clearance lights? Just wondering. Too many regs!

Come the first of the year there are a lot of the DOT things we 1-tons must comply with - fire extinguisher, first aid kit, fuel receipts/log book, emergency reflectors (both the triangles and round) and lighting. I have been reading the DOT stuff and there are a lot of new laws that come into effect over the next couple of years. They are rooted in the homeland security stuff, that is where you will find the timeframes for the implementation of the new laws. They will just 'appear' in the DOT when they are to be implemented, with no warning I might add. They are already law, homeland security stuff that was passed by Congress months ago.

I am assuming this is if you haul or pull commercially? So you have a first aid kit. Is there a law saying you have to stop and use it?

 

[klenger]

The cab lights and tailgate lights never were required for the SRW. For some reason, Dodge chose to make the cab lights standard on the 3rd gens till 2005 or 2006, but did not include the tailgate lights. The requirement is based on the max width of the truck, and is not related to comercial use or towing. Trailers have the equivelant lights on the back of the trailer at the top. I think side-in campers have them too.

 

[Simplysmn]

2500 or 3500

was on a dodge lot last night and i think we saw 1 truck with lights on cab nothing on the lot even if it was a drw truck 3500. and this was in SO Cal.

 

[AMink]

I guess my question is not whether it's the law or not, but what good do lights on your roof and tailgate do if it's the width of the vehicle that is being addressed? Seems like you'd want lights on the widest part of the truck, like on the sides of a trailer. Am I missing something? (Not that I've ever missed anything before! :-laf )

 

[JDHenning]

3 DOT lights

We've always reffered to the three center lights as DOT lights. My class 8 tractors don't have them, or need them by law. The reason they do not is they are classified as a tractor, just for towing a trailer not to have freight loaded on as well as pull a trailer. We used to have a cab over that was 300" W. B. with a small flatbed on it as well as a fifth wheel. It was registered as a truck tractor. By my interpretation of the law it would have to have the lights on the rear of the truck. Our 3500 trucks are considred truck tractors by the law, thats the crappy way they are enforcing the three lights. Kind of nit pickin if you ask me. As far as the guy with the 4x2 that would have been in hot water if it was 4x4 thats horse hockey, it doesn't matter how many axles are drive or not. Even if it was he only had 4(if memory serves)thats not even close to too many. To my knowlegde there is no law that says how many axles we can have, it has more to do with weight of trailer, with or without air brake etc that determines the class of the operator. No offense but I wonder what these guys are doing to get all of this attention on the road, I though I was a target in the big truck, heck the little guys are taking all the heat off me. Toodle-oo.

 

[lcrawford]

my son got stoped in freeport texas for no tailgate in his 01 3500 he did not get a ticket the cop was just letting him know he would be looking for a tailgate next time he saw him

 

[SnoKing]

Washington State Code says that clearance light are required for anything over 80" wide. Now I have a question. My current 5th wheel only has corner marker lights on the front and not the three center lights, and I tow it with a 2500 without clearance lighting. So going down the road I am not showing the three center lights to on coming traffic. The rear of the trailer has the three center lights.



This is a old hold over from narrow two lane roads, to notify drivers approaching from the other direction, that they are meeting a vehicle that is wider than 80 inches.



I also do not know of any bobtail tractor that has this lighting on the rear.



This is from Washington State web site:



"On trailers over 80 inches in width, two red clearance

lamps on the rear located at the highest and widest

points of the permanent structure, and three red

identification lamps on the rear located near the top of

the permanent structure of the trailer as close as

practical to the vertical center-line. "



And according to this info, it appears that my Cardinal is legal without the three center lights on the front, but when I am towing it, am I legal? My "tractor is not over 80" or is it with extended mirrors???



Wa State Code



I will most likely just see if I can fish a wire in the front cap of the trailer and install three center lights. My 1997 Terry had three center lights. What do you guys have on the front of your trailers?





SNOKING

 

[cojhl2]

Question fre: lights addl to required

Now that we have this thread,, a good one too!!



I have looked thru the FMCSR a number of times in the past but could not find where additional lights are described or controlled.



Example: where 3 center amber lights are required on the cab,, the only ref I remember seeing is in the figures no mention of rules (the addl two on the cab edge)





How about the additional marker lights along the side of these trailers. I don't see them mentioned anywhere. What should the colors be etc?? Only the one in the center (amber) is mentioned from what I found.



How about the markers we have vertical up the Headache rack??



I don't have a FMCSR handy here at home,, I am only going from the research I've done in the past regarding these questions. I have enver found an answer. .



Thanks for the help. .

 

[SnoKing]

Well, I had to go pick up crab for dinner and my storage area is next store, so I drove thru and looked at around 20 trailers, only three had the three center lights in the front and they where all older early 90's trailers.



So have the trailer manufacture moved the requirement to signal width to the person/truck towing a trailer that is over 80" wide???? SNOKING

 

[Texas Diesel]

Yes, the newer tailers have the 3 center lights. Not sure why.

 

[CDonaldson]

They have the 3 center lights BECAUSE they are over 80" wide and are required to meet the DOT in manufacturing. When you hook on to them, then your vehicle must meet the DOT requirements to tow them. The trailers that DO NOT have the lights were manufactured prior to the DOT requirements and NOW the beginning of the ENFORCEMENT of the DOT's requirements will begin and they will be required to retrofit the lights or get them off the road. The battle lines are being drawn here, let's see who wins. Bet it will be the DOT as it seems all the states are also lining up for the enforcement stuff. They started east of the Mississippi earlier this year and are moving west with the enforcements. I have a friend who manufactures horse trailers in PA. 5-6 years ago he told me that this stuff was in the cards for all our futures. He did not put the 3-center markers on his tapered goosenecks 'because' the taper was less than the 80"s, but did put the corner markers on. NOW he puts all of them on. I wonder why? Because after the taper he goes over the 80"s and the DOT cited him as a manufacturer. He had to recall the trailers he has manufactured since/including the 2005 models.



CD

 

[SnoKing]

They have the 3 center lights BECAUSE they are over 80" wide and are required to meet the DOT in manufacturing. When you hook on to them, then your vehicle must meet the DOT requirements to tow them. The trailers that DO NOT have the lights were manufactured prior to the DOT requirements and NOW the beginning of the ENFORCEMENT of the DOT's requirements will begin and they will be required to retrofit the lights or get them off the road. The battle lines are being drawn here, let's see who wins. Bet it will be the DOT as it seems all the states are also lining up for the enforcement stuff. They started east of the Mississippi earlier this year and are moving west with the enforcements. I have a friend who manufactures horse trailers in PA. 5-6 years ago he told me that this stuff was in the cards for all our futures. He did not put the 3-center markers on his tapered goosenecks 'because' the taper was less than the 80"s, but did put the corner markers on. NOW he puts all of them on. I wonder why? Because after the taper he goes over the 80"s and the DOT cited him as a manufacturer. He had to recall the trailers he has manufactured since/including the 2005 models.



CD

Check again guys, the new trailers did not have the center lights, and the older ones did. The are all makes of new trailers in my storage area, and none had the center lights. According the Washington State Web site I posted, trailers do not require the front center three lights. So the Question still is, if you are over 80" does the law require the tractor/TV to have the lights.



SNOKING

 

[AMink]

It would seem to me that if the law changes and the older vehicles (either tow or towed) don't meet the new code, there would be something to let Joe average know about the changes and who is affected. Maybe 1 or 2 percent of P/U owners will even have a clue about these changes. Most folks rely on the manufacturer to provide legal vehicles. My 3500 doesn't have these lights. I haven't measured my trailer, but I will. Still don't know if I need the lights on my truck if the trailer is over 80". Still don't understand what practical purpose lights on your roof serve for something that is width related. I always thought clearance lights were for show. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Guys it is all written right here:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...?rule_toc=762&section=393.11&section_toc=1859



The width is 80" or wider needs them, front and rear.



They do not address a < 80" truck pulling a => 80" trailer. If you are really trying to be 100% legal, I would run 3 ID lights in the front of the trailer, or put them on your truck, 1 or the other. My Haulmark came with front ID lights if I recall correctly.



You guys are not hauling for hire, so I would not worry. When I decided I was going to haul for hire I broke down and drilled 5 holes in my roof.



I also am building a flatbed that is about 84" wide. I used a 2. 25" hole saw to drill for grommet mount recessed lighting. These lights are very cheap $3 each including grommets and wiring harness, and easy to install. You could mount these flush into your rear bumper if you don't run a tailgate.



Tractors do not require these, because they assume you are going to be pulling a trailer 90% of the time. Just to give you an idea, trailers also do not require a bumper of any sort.



Enjoy, stay legal but don't get too caught up in it



Merry Christmas!

 

[SnoKing]

This is the confusing part from the WA Code:

"(2) Trailers and semitrailers eighty inches or more in over-all width:



(a) On the front, two clearance lamps, one at each side;



(b) On the rear, two clearance lamps, one at each side, and after January 1, 1964, three identification lamps meeting the specifications of subdivision (6) [(7)] of this section;"



It says that the front ones are not required on the trailer. SNOKING

 

[Bob Cochran]

HHHMMM I added 4 red clearance lights to my 5er tailgate. If they are being so picky I wonder if I will get sited for having to many and excess lumens!!!! Sorry just had to do it. I got everything called for above except my fire extinquisher is an old halon(now illiegal probably and have to go to jail) about the size of those lighter butane can I am thinking of getting a new one though. I have retangular reflectors but what are the round ones?