Warning to everyone running SS Ladder bars - and most likely all others

[Joseph Donnelly]

Going back to the mid 1960s, Mopar tried something different instead of ladder bars. They shortened the front half of the leaf springs' length, and made it stiff with multiple leafs. The rear half (behind the axle) was made long and whippy with few leaves. This gave great traction for drag racing and these leaf springs have been called the Super Stock springs for decades now.



Assuming the Ram does not need its original weight capacity, I wonder if something like this would work.



Steve, I'm sorry I ever mentioned the foul d-word. I'll never suggest defueling again

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Me and DavidVT had the same problem with Fabritechs Traction Bars. The frame didn't crack, but the front mounts broke. I think they were 1/4" steel.



Our trucks are tough on a ladder bar type traction aids. The engines make SO much torque.



We never hear of this problem on a gas powered truck.

 

[BLACKRAM]

Well it finally stopped raining long enough to check out the bars.



Result: NO visible cracks.



Steve, I really feel your holeshots are the source of the cracking.

 

[willyslover]

Steve. . sorry no response from me... my computer is blown. . lightning hit me. . repairs won't be til a couple days. . I'm at KC Customs in Santa Rosa, Ca. getting ghost flames and using his 'puter. .

anyhoo I'll check it out and get back to ya

 

[bigkavr]

Steve,

Mucho kudo's for bringing this to our attention. You be Da Man, Thank You. .

I checked the mounting on my single traction bar and so far, no cracks. I might have lucked out by going to the crossmember.

I know my launches are just about as hard as yours and with my

extra weight, I'm sure the stresses on the single bar are about as nasty...

I'm wondering if the cracking is developing due to the length

of the front bracket. The length of the bracket is going to convey

some enormous longitudal twisting forces against the frame.

(in line with the frame rails) Could this be the culprit?

Keep up the good work.

 

[NVR FNSH]

willyslover,

Where is KC Customs? I'm at work up on Fountaingrove. Any possibility of dropping by and meeting you and seeing the truck before the public un-veiliing?



Brian

 

[gitchesum]

Originally posted by willyslover

Steve. . sorry no response from me... my computer is blown. . lightning hit me. . repairs won't be til a couple days. . I'm at KC Customs in Santa Rosa, Ca. getting ghost flames and using his 'puter. .

anyhoo I'll check it out and get back to ya

Gary, you gotta get me some pics ASAP!!!!

You got a silver truck don't ya? That is exactly what I am planning to do with my truck.



Can't wait to see them. I know Bryan does some great work.

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by 2000ney

.



Steve, I really feel your holeshots are the source of the cracking.

Exactly!

Another good example on why parts need tested ON THE TRACK, extreme conditions.

Steve found a weak point that may never be found in normal conditions, and may prevent failures years from now on normally driven trucks.

Way to abuse your truck Steve!

 

[Hammer]

Steve,,Kudos go out to you by bringing this to the forefront,,Are you sure its the frame thats the problem though??,,I do realize that the factory did not intend for us to pound these suspensions with the torque we are but a true set of ladder bars may not have brought on this problem,,When a bar is installed to control the top hit only on a suspension something has to give,,True ladder bar suspensions like the bars down in the nose, to allow a better axis rotation, so the rear suspension plants the rear tires by driving the nose up and the rear down,,In actuality what your producing is half of a four link suspension and without the abitity to control the bottom suspension hit all your doing is allowing the suspension to put pressure on its next weakest link(i. e-the frame),,Remember the rear is driving the pinion down towards the ground and your bars only help to hold the rear in place,not stop the rotation,,By incorporating a mount from the left to right frames(tubular or box frame) and moving your bars inside on the full mount you could easily add a lower set of bars to strengthen the setup and even incorporate a driveshaft hoop into it,,Also remember longer is better with true ladder bars, where four links like the top bars shorter,,You want to transfer the torque further up the frame allowing the whole truck to enhance traction with the torque,,One last thing,with the leaf springs and spacer blocks it hard to make a consistent hook ,a set of one piece blocks will help and clamping of the rear leaves will also help at some tracks,,Let me know how you make out and if you want a chassis book to read buy the book "Doorslammers" by Dave Morgan its very helpful...

 

[David_VT]

Fabritech front mount broke

I am real glad I read this before I got my fabritech ladder bar front mount fixed.

The garage wanted to weld it to the frame but I was concerned about what that might do to the strength of the frame.

Reading this I will go back to the bolt on solution but make sure the darn front mount is strong enough to take the torque.

I think the bushings in the fabritech help to minimize the shock to the frame rather than the non-bushing style. Not being a mechanical engineer I can only quess at such conclusions.

ANOTHER WARNING FOR THE FABRITECH BARS:
I found my ubolts backed out 1/2 inch on the good side of the ladderbars.

I kept hearing a jingle under the truck on bumpy roads and finally located it to those loose Ubolts. Could have been scary!

I still believe in ladder bars, clearly we have to better understand the weakness in these frames.

I have to agree with those talking about the DC product having a weaker frame, going on what I've heard. A local Ford/DC dealer will do all he can to talk you out of a DC 1ton dump. He says if it only got loaded with 1 ton you would be fine. But who only puts a one ton load in a one ton dump? He will sell either but prefers to push the ford for abusive loading over the other advantages the DC product has. Another local contractor just switched to Ford after his crew bent two frames on his ram dump trucks. This is rural Vermont where roads are never flat and everyone seemingly overloads their trucks.

I am looking for a used 1ton and will likely go gm or ford based on all the warnings I've had from both DC owners and non-DC owners.

 

[JR2]

Hey Steve - any ideas on a fix?? for the bars???

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

David, before going to the dark side, look at the 97-up chassis cab Ram. The frame is MUCH stronger.

 

[n7gxz]

Anyone hear any updates on how things are going?



Kevin

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I got the frame fixed up, put doubler plates on each side of the frame and then drove to Maryland and back and raced at MIR. I still want to put a brace from the forward mount to the forward spring perch mount. Unforetunately, I lost 5th gear last week and I'm busy rebuilding my transmission right now. Once I get it back together then I'll finish the rest of the bracing. I'm also going to pull the doubler plates and make sure the frame didn't start cracking in the last 2500 miles (since the fix). Here's some pictures of the frame repair.



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Driver's side outside before repair



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Driver's side outside after grinding , stop drilling the cracks, and beating the frame back into shape (bulge)



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up close of the last shot



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after V'ing out the cracks



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up close of the last shot



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after welding



After that the welds were ground back down smooth and then the frame was painted to stop corrosion. I'll post more pics when I get the additional brace done, no promises on a time frame as the trans has taken center stage.

 

[LSMITH]

HOLY COW!!!!!!!!! When you said cracks I thought maybe one or two, that puppy was coming apart!!!! Good thing you caught it before it fell. I never expected to see that many cracks.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Most of those cracks weren't visible until the grinding was done to clean the paint off. On the unfinished frame it looked like 3 cracks from each of the lower bolt holes with the longest being about an inch and a half - as you can see after the paint was taken off they were much larger.

 

[Briar Hopper]

Big bummer on that... I hate big cracks. Doesn't everybody?

I'll take my '63 Thunderbird steering system in my '01 Ram, with the flattened ball joints and 5 inches of play, anyday, over cracks that big in the frame.

 

[rotohead]

No cracks

I've had the SS ladder bars installed on my SB since last July and no cracks by visual inspection. When I get time I will dye penetrate the area but I don't expect any change because I'm pretty gentle w/ just occasional towing and no launches. Doesn't mean I'm not interested in a fix for this problem. Selling this truck could be a problem if the frame is percieved to be weakened.

Chuck

 

[JR2]

Hey Steve any luck on the final fix???

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I've been sidetracked by my truck being down with no transmission for a month. I had it back together 2 weeks ago and the transmission lasted all of 90 miles before it grenaded due to one bearing dragging on the mainshaft. I have a transmission being shipped to me on monday and will have the truck back on the road before Thunder in Muncie, once I get past that then I'll finish the brace for it and then will just have to watch it for a while to see if they reappear, which I don't think will happen with the doubler plates and the tie in to the front spring perch.



-Steve