Water in oil?

[AlFischer]

On my new 2014 2500 I just returned from my first towing trip. Ran GREAT! With a little over 1000 miles I checked the oil. Looks like water. (baby *****) on the dipstick.
Took it immediately to the dealer. Service manager wasn't sure what to make of it. Said that if it were coolant it would be purple because of the color of the coolant they use in the diesels. Called a tech who drained 2 quarts of oil and said he found no trace of water. Stated that it was the nature of the break in oil from the factory. He thought that if it were water it would be at the bottom. My experience is that it would emulsify into a cream. Did not argue, and ca,e home.

I have seen water in oil before. It looks like water to me. I have never heard of an oil that could emulsify on its own leaving a cream colored mess on a dipstick.

What do you make of this? Any one else have this experience? Unfortunately I did not check the oil before taking delivery. I have trouble believing the service techs story.

How can I make a determination if its water or not?

 

[GCroyle]

Independent oil analysis, but I bet you don't have a sample of it.

 

[AlFischer]

A sample? I have a crankcase full.

How lon does an independent analysis take? Is the a way to do a quick check myself?

 

[PDM]

Al, in my experience if you drive only short trips where the engine can't warm up to burn off the combustion moisture bypassing the rings, it condenses under the valve cover and other such locations as a pale creme, and oil looks normal. If a head gasket fails, you eventually can get a large quantity of coolant mixing with oil, and it (all your oil pan contents) will be a gravy like emulsion pretty much the color of the oil before the coolant contamination. I would be surprised if the color of the coolant had much effect, as I've seen this before with the green stuff, and the oil-coolant emulsion had no noticeable green coloring.

Thing is, you mention 1000 miles of towing, and unless it was cold weather for your trip, it probably would have had a chance to burn off (unless the location is a more isolated cool spot).

Take pictures of what you have, clean it up, and see if it returns. If it returns, or you are wanting answers ASAP, I think an engine oil analysis will indicate any abnormal levels of water or coolant on your oil.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Hope everything is OK, and it's a good sign that there are no other problems and it is running well.

 

[RustyJC]

Water as a by-product of combustion typically shows up in "cold" areas such as the dipstick tube, especially in a vehicle used for stop-and-go driving in cold conditions. Having said that, it is unusual to have it show up if all your usage has been towing unless you've been operating under extremely cold conditions. Go ahead and get the oil analysis, but don't be overly concerned by the presence of some water unless you get a report showing the markers for coolant are present also.

Rusty

 

[AH64ID]

I don't believe Cummins uses a special break-in oil, they actually advise against it.

 

[AlFischer]

Well, I am in central California in the midst of a drought. No water to be seen! Last week we had temperatures in the 80s. Left home towing 9500 lbs when the truck had 540 miles on it. Two trips of about 200 each with te trailer and about 50 miles on 2 other short trips without the trailer. No stop and go or short trips at all. No rain, fog or morning dew. It was bone dry.

Sunday, I returned home towing 200 miles. Checked the oil Monday. Cleaned the dipstick and the oil was quite creamy after sitting all night.

Dealer said all was fine, just change the oil at 3k an it will be OK.

 

[RustyJC]

The water isn't going to come from the atmosphere. Water is produced as a product of combustion - the hydrogen from a hydrocarbon fuel (such as diesel) and the oxygen from the air combine in the combustion process to form (among lots of other stuff that's created during combustion) H2O which gets into the crankcase from the washdown of oil on the cylinder walls and as blowby into the crankcase.

Rusty

 

[PDM]

Well, I am in central California in the midst of a drought. No water to be seen! Last week we had temperatures in the 80s. Left home towing 9500 lbs when the truck had 540 miles on it. Two trips of about 200 each with te trailer and about 50 miles on 2 other short trips without the trailer. No stop and go or short trips at all. No rain, fog or morning dew. It was bone dry.

Sunday, I returned home towing 200 miles. Checked the oil Monday. Cleaned the dipstick and the oil was quite creamy after sitting all night.

Dealer said all was fine, just change the oil at 3k an it will be OK.

Al, I don't think ANY normal amount of condensation should be visible IN your oil. Even on engines with lots of condensation on the valve cover/etc. the oil itself in the oil pan looks completely normal (and normal on a clean dipstick dipped into that oil).

A picture would help us see if it is normal, and help you if it comes to a dispute with Ram.

 

[AlFischer]

Rusty, would this occur after driving 200 miles towing 9500 lbs on a 75 degree day to the point of being thick and creamy on the dipstick? Never saw this on my 2001 Ram or any car that I have owned.

This has me worried. Have to drive this truck for a LOONG time!

 

[PDM]

The water isn't going to come from the atmosphere. Water is produced as a product of combustion - the hydrogen from a hydrocarbon fuel (such as diesel) and the oxygen from the air combine in the combustion process to form (among lots of other stuff that's created during combustion) H2O which gets into the oil from the washdown of oil on the cylinder walls and as blowby into the crankcase.

Rusty

Like Rusty has said, burn a gal of fuel, get nearly a gal of water byproduct as exhaust. Unless the truck was parked in a flood zone prior to delivery, or someone absent-mindedly poured windshield washer into the oil-fill, I can't see a reason for the contents of your oil pan to be any kind of "creamy" in appearance.

If your crankcase was overfilled with oil to the point it was churned by the crank (way overfilled) it would be aerated, but not in my opinion creamy in appearance.

 

[RustyJC]

No, as I said, that is abnormal in your case unless there were some severe circumstances present. A key clue in finding the source of the water is to get the oil analysis done and see if coolant markers are present. A good explanation of what will show up if coolant is present is shown HERE. An excerpt follows:

Antifreeze formulations used as coolants deploy an assortment of organo-metallic and organic additives. These are used to protect metals in the cooling system from corrosion/cavitation, to control scale, to prevent foaming and to maintain pH. Common examples of additives include various phosphates, sodium borate, molybdate, sodium silicate, potassium sebacate and sodium nitrate. Just like additives in a lubricating oil, these additives will contribute to ranging elemental concentrations of sodium, boron, potassium, silicon and phosphorous in the coolant. As will be discussed in greater detail later, the elemental families from the coolant additive system help serve as markers, like DNA, to identify glycol contamination of lubricating oils.

Rusty

 

[AlFischer]

This may be a false alarm. I just pulled the dipstick and photographed it. Looked covered with cream. Took a clean rag and cleaned it completely. Still looked creamy. Cummins as coated the end of the dipstick with a cream colored plastic. even has a blob at the top of the measuring range. Wet or dry it looks like 'baby *****'. Put some of the pil on a clean piece of metal and it was clear.

Never saw a plastic coated dipstick but it does make it easy to see the oil level! A Cummins improvement. Think I will call the service manager and let him know. He didn't notice it either.

 

[RustyJC]

I'm glad it was something that simple.

Rusty

 

[GCroyle]

See, it didn't take very long to get that oil analysis after all.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Good to hear!

I would have been VERY concerned!

 

[AnOldBiker]

Just an FYI, I called Cummins last year with a couple questions. During that discussion we covered oil. They stated for several years they send out 'every' engine from the manufacturing plant with Valvoline Full Sync Blue 15w-40. They also recommend the use of the same oil. (I believe they have one great contract with Valvoline so they give this recommendation, but that's my gut feeling).

Glad it was something simple and non-destructive.

 

[AlFischer]

See, it didn't take very long to get that oil analysis after all.

YEP! You were right. The proper analysis worked! DUH....