Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) water injection

[Ahopper]

ok i have been searching around trying to find a way to lower my etgs while not having to replace my turbo( no more mula after new trannie). the best resort i have found besides sliding my plate back ( dont want to loose the power) is to get a water/ meth kit. now i have read alot about water injection and water meth injection. what is the difference , what is better, and what is cheaper? any help would be great .

 

[McLaughlin]

From what I've seen there appear to be two main companies that do water/meth injections. Snow performance and Coolingmist . I'm not that familiar with Coolmist but from what I've found out about Snow's system it can run either water or water/meth mix. From what I've read the biggest difference is the water/meth mix provides more power increases and perhaps a bit less EGT cooling. I know Snow has three different kits that increase in price as the capability increases. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to install either to get some first-hand experience.

 

[Ahopper]

mclaughlin: with your set up what are you seeing for temps? does the injectors make it run hot while towing. that is really what i want but i thought if im seeing 1300+ as it is that it would just get way worse if i get new injectors. thats why im looking to get cooler temps and more power out of the water / meth injection.

 

[MAleksandrowicz]

I have the coolingmist kit in my truck. I run 50/50 mix in it. It drops the egts about 300 degrees when it turns on. Overall it is well worth the money. Just watch your headgasket.

 

[Ahopper]

anyone else?

 

[McLaughlin]

mclaughlin: with your set up what are you seeing for temps? does the injectors make it run hot while towing. that is really what i want but i thought if im seeing 1300+ as it is that it would just get way worse if i get new injectors. thats why im looking to get cooler temps and more power out of the water / meth injection.

Without water/meth injection, my EGTs max out at about 1250/1300 under hard acceleraton(i. e. WOT and going for broke on the flat land at about 5000 elevation). The AFC and the fuel plate are at about mid range. I have no idea where my star wheel is set at. I haven't done any towing since I put the injectors in so I really can't answer that part of your question. Depending on the injectors you currently have and what you move to you would likely see higher EGTs if you went with a bigger injector. The increase in EGT temps due to the new injectors can be mitigated some by setting the timing to 15. 5 degrees or so. I'm not sure if running your timing at 16. 4 raises or lowers the EGT readings. Also, a 4" exhaust is supposed to help reduce the EGTs some but you have probably minimized the benefit since you've minimized your exhaust back pressure. I suspect most of the EGT issues you have are due to the 100 fuel plate, I've been told several times a #10 plate is the best general purpose plate for general use that includes towing, performance while mitigating high EGTs. I haven't run a 100 plate so I don't have any personal experience to rely on just hear-say. Another thing I just thought of, if you are already producing more than 350 or so HP. your turbo is probably somewhat inefficient and could be causing some of the higher EGT readings you are seeing.



From what I've read, the Snow kit will reduce the temps about 250 degrees while also providing 50-100 additional hp. One problem you might run into if your are running a lot of injection is water/ment fluid capacity.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

I've been running a Snow kit for almost 4 years now! Matt was all into the gasser World till we found each other and got him into the Diesel's... ..... I still run the same system.



Jim

 

[ALehman]

I've got the snows kit and I love it. I run 2 625 ml nozzles. I haven't tried playing with the pump pressures yet. Great easy kit to install

 

[Ahopper]

ok so i have been searching around on water injection systems and i have come up with many diy kits (http://www.turbomirage.com/water4.html) does this system look different than a snow performance and or a cooling mist kit? does any one think it would work?

 

[MAleksandrowicz]

The pump they list is only 60psi. I would recommend at least 150psi.

 

[WaynesWorld]

Ahopper,



The snow kit works as long as you keep the fluid in it.

I run a 2 stage kit . The Snow people can sell you a bigger tank or you can use your windshield washer tank. Either way you should have enough for the long haul.



WAYNES WORLD

 

[Ahopper]

now how carfull do i have to be with the head gasket? and why do i have to be. does the water/meth system make it easyer to blow? and if i did just the water injection do i have to be as carfull? sorry for all the questions just trying to figure this one out

 

[John_P]

Ahopper:



In my opinion, if you run JUST water you don't need to be real concerned about the head gasket. But,..... if you intend to mix pure methanol or windshield washer fluid and your head gasket is stock, I would be careful about how much you add! Remember that methanol will "cook off" in the cylinder faster than diesel fuel and you can have detonation problems with too much of it. I know that I did in my 96' 12 valve.



Good luck.



-------

John_P

 

[Signal73]

how much does straight water cool vs. say the blue windshield washer stuff that everywhere sells?

 

[John_P]

Signal 73:



When I had the Snow System on my 96' 12 valve I did not personally see any difference in the cooling effects of straight distilled water vs the windshield washer fluid added. I saw temperature drops of 250-300 degrees with both of them, but the windshield washer solvent did not lower my temps any further.



Maybe Jim Fulmer will add to this as he has played around alot more with the windshield washer/methanol mixture than I have. I had bad detonation problems with adding either mixture and stopped using it after that.



--------

John_P

 

[MMcCallie]

My devilsownonline.com kit also caused detonation easily. Fortunately, the pump is adjustable. I mounted it just behind the core support under the hood. The detonation is obvious, the engine will actually lose power.



I cannot imagine ever needing more than 150 psi. I'd have to be making a lot more boost. My adjustment method is to drive around town and pull over when i got detonation, then back off the pump pressure. I use an Allen wrench to decrease or increase the psi output of the pump. Everything is very adjustable so i have total control. Never have to worry about damage because i can always adjust.



When it is hot outside, you can make use of more pump pressure at lower RPMs, and run straight water. If you use tap water like i do, you may want an extra filter, as i have 3 on my system between the pump and injector nozzles. When it is cold out, you have to back off the usage at lower RPMs and the amount of pressure, and mix in alcohol (windshield washer fluid) in my case.



I've made the mistake of letting straight water sit in cold weather. Even upper 30s will turn it to slush so you have to wait for it to thaw. Also, the frozen water will expand and possibly crack a plastic tank.



Yes, straight water will still cool a good 200 degrees. Detonation is the biggest concern you have to be wary of when using water/methanol injection. The amount of timing it adds will be noticeable, even by ear. I've never heard of it being enough to blow a head gasket, but is suppose that if you were running a ton of it, maybe dual pumps or something, it could be a problem.

 

[John_P]

MMcCallie:



Good post!! Thanks for your input.



I am glad to hear I am not the only one that has had trouble with detonation problems by mixing water and methanol. I am by no means an expert by any means on this, but have been told that the "mechanical or static" timing of my older P-Pumped, 12 valve engine along with high mechanical timing (20+) is causing my detonation.



Thanks again.



-------

John_P

 

[Ahopper]

so my timing has already been bumped up to around 16 does anyone think i will have alot of problems with the detonation issue?

 

[DBraunig]

What is the cure if we experience detonation with the water/meth? lower the pump pressure or reduce the static timing of the injection pump? How have you guys "adjusted" for detonation?



Dave

 

[Signal73]

Im interested in water injection, soley for egt reduction, not additional HP. Wasnt aware of detonation probs, would like to hear solutions as well.

Thanks. Jim