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Water/Meth Injection

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Hi all,



With all the restrictions in place on putting programmers on the new trucks, aka warranty issues, can i assume this also applies to water/methanol injection systems? I don't want to do something that will void my warranty. Really missing my Edge juice w/attitude i had on my 07 Ram, that's for sure.
 
Any add on's that do not have a EO number are not legal. Any added or removed equipment may affect warranty.
 
EPA won't be satisfied until they drive every motor vehicle manufacturer out of business leaving only limousine liberals riding and the rest of us pedaling cheap Chinese bicycles or walking. Politicians and government workers will enjoy expanded train and subway transportation provided free of charge by us chumps (credit to Mike Ellis for the word).
 
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They aren't really enforcing it down to this level. I doubt your local inspection guy is going to notice. Another option is just make your meth injection system easy to remove.

I wonder if an oil analysis (done by warranty station) would clue them into your use of methanol on the motor? Just a hypothetical question for the group.
 
Why do you want to add this to your new truck? The days of Mod's I think are behind us, these trucks have more power than anyone really needs right off the lot.
Hi all,

With all the restrictions in place on putting programmers on the new trucks, aka warranty issues, can i assume this also applies to water/methanol injection systems? I don't want to do something that will void my warranty. Really missing my Edge juice w/attitude i had on my 07 Ram, that's for sure.
 
Computer electronics of new engines are likely to detect any modification that alters performance parameters and set codes, perhaps even activate a limp home mode.
 
It's not for horsepower, it's for keeping my EGT's down while towing. Another option i guess would be a bigger intercooler. Might be safer to go that route instead. I know most of Banks Performance Products have an EO number for them, so they should be safe.
 
Why do you need to worry about keeping egt down while towing?

Your egt will not exceed a safe level. If the truck is unmolested you can't harm it running it all day with your foot to the floor with a heavy trailer behind.
 
Well that must be the difference between the 2500 and 3500. My 07 2500 consistently saw 1300 degrees on numerous occassions, so i just assumed it would be the same for the 3500. Hey, i'm all for saving money if i can. If i don't need it, that's great! My money is better of spent elsewhere, like campgrounds, vacations, and beer supply... not neccessarily in that order of course!
 
My son had the snow water/meth on his 04 along with 50hp injectors and some magical black box that made it run like a STRIPED A** APE ( they can really run cause National Geo cant get a picture of one :eek:) It was fun It would put a smile on anyone's face with a heartbeat BUT THE BOTTOM LINE is that it cost lots of money to do what? I asked him why? he said you had fast cars,trucks so what's the difference? NONE ;) Now its back to stock except for the 50hp injectors and he still gets to the place he wants to go almost as fast but without all the OTHER PROBLEMS THAT COME UP.



BIG
 
1300° means nothing. The '04. 5 HO 5. 9 engines were tested at full power, full load by Cummins engineers years ago at 1425° - 1450° for long periods of time. All engines since then will routinely show those temps when working hard. That's what they were designed and tested to do. An engine that won't produce those egts is not fueling correctly or providing sufficient air.

Save your money. Just drive it and enjoy.
 
Harvey that is completely true, but it is because of the severely retarded timing and late injection events that the EGTs to go up. Not because the engines are "tougher" than older models. Cylinder temps are probably the same. That's why you have to use more conservative temps if you go changing timing and things - not what we a talking about here. If it's a stock truck, don't worry. The main reason to use water/meth, IMHO, is more power without major air flow mods. The water and meth cool the combustion and the meth is a combustion aid. So you don't have to get bigger turbo and such to safely add power. Water/Meth should be a good way to add power to a post '07. 5 truck with mucking with the emissions crap. Will it pass good inspector? No. It's a relatively cheap and easy power adder. If you don't want more power, don't worry about it.
 
Actually, the newer engines are quite a bit "tougher" than the 12V's and 24V's in the ares that count. Valves, valve seats, piston design and cooling to be exact. Those changes allow them to run cylinder temps that would melt a 12V quickly.

The worry about EGT's is baseless anyway as they are high in the exhaust track and not in the cylinder where the damage can occur. That is solely due to timing and the event strategy not over fueling.

Water\Meth is not a power adder by any means. Niether water nor methanol has the BTU's that diesel has and replacing them with diesel just cuts the amount of power generated on a combustion event. Even cooling the combustion event will drop the power and cause other problems with cylinder pressures.

If you want more power a timing box is what you want, that will give up to 50 HP across the rpm range without adding fuel. You will just have to adjust max EGT you let it get to.
 
As a marine engineer I operate propulsion diesel engines in the 10,000 BHP - 45,000 BHP range.

I don't know what the endpoint for fuel delivery is on the Cummins road diesels, but for proper combustion air/oxygen delivery and scavenge air ( excess air that purges combustion gases from the cylinder prior to the intake/delivery of clean air) is as important as fuel delivery. A low functioning turbo, clogged air filter, dirty intercooler, malfunctioning EGR system or a clogged DPF will result in high EGT's and possible engine damage. The engine was designed by Cummins to deliver power as configured while meeting stringent EPA and CARB restrictions. Chrysler designed the drivetrain to deliver a certain amount of power and torque. The mistake most people make when they uprate an engine is that they fail to uprate the drivetrain as well. Most of the engine and transmission failure stories I've heard are from people that have increased the power of the engine without strengthening the transmission or improving the intake system along with increased fuel delivery.

I'm really happy with the power of my new Ram, I wish the fuel economy was better, but I'm not willing at this time to delete the pollution controls to improve fuel economy and performance. I have no objection to anyone that feels the need to delete the EGR and DPF, however they should be aware that there is a possibility of engine and drivetrain failures that could occur due to performance increases that are often accompanied with delete modifications.

The thing about water injection systems is that they work well in dry climates, but not so well in humid climates. The charge air should be slightly less than saturated after it passes through the intercooler to provide the densest air charge and most expansion of combustion gases. Any charge air that precipitate free water during the turbo / intercooling part of intake can severely damage an engine. On ships we regulate the charge air temp to keep it just below saturation and drain any free water from the intake system that may be present, on most road diesels the ability to regulate air intake temp and control excess moisture in intake air is limited if present at all. With the advent of high performance turbos and intercoolers this will become more important, as far as I know this aspect of the combustion cycle has not been addressed by the aftermarket community. To put it into perspective, on the ship I work on, on a 90 deg day and 90 % rel humidity at 30 psi boost our intake air is saturated at about 120 deg, we adjust the intake air to about 125 deg and still get a small amount of free water that needs to be drained from the intake system.

I hope some of this proves helpful to anyone thinking about uprating their engine.
 
I'm a bit of a noob on water/meth so apologize in advance for the question: So if all I wanna do is get a little more HP and lower EGT when towing without over-taxing anything or pushing any factory components above their limit, can't I do that with a water/meth on my '06 CTD? What problems am I inviting further down the road and does the gain not make up for any detriment that is added by its' installation?
 
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