water/meth vs. injectors? I'm Looking for less smoke.

[AndyMan]

It has recently ocurred to me that a water/meth setup may be a better option for me than bigger injectors. It seems to me that with my current set-up, bigger injectors will net me more HP, but will also hamper me with higher EGT's and lots of smoke. With a water/meth setup, I should be able to gain roughly 70hp, decreased smoke, and ~200* drop in EGT.



So wouldn't you think that some RV275's with water/meth would be a good combo to add to my Edge Hot Juice and modded WH1C turbo?



It seems that I can make more useable power with less stress to the motor... plus, like the edge, I can turn the water/meth on and off at will. Can't do that with big injectors.



Thoughts/comments?

 

[DCreed]

I'm guessing you mean your 99?
more power
- more smoke
_____________
= more air
how much boost ,egt,smoke you got now?

 

[AndyMan]

I agree that is the standard formula. But thinking about what I know of water/meth injection, is seems that with the same boost, you could attain more power and lower EGT's at the same time... thereby breaking out of the standard formula.



In essence... consider the two scenario's below.



1. add 75 horse injectors. Result is more power, increased EGT and increased smoke.



OR



2. add 75 horse water/meth injection. Result is still more power, but a decrease in EGT and smoke remains same as before water/meth.



Am I off base here?

 

[hotram03]

No not at all, power without the smoke.

 

[JValdez]

I have a quick question on the water/meth deal. Is this something that's good for a truck that only tows a few times a year? Does this in anyway hurt the motor or decrease the reliability of it? Thanks

 

[AndyMan]

As far as I know, one of the primary design reasons for water/meth injection was for towing...



It's supposed to lower EGT's, and boost won't increase much if any... The only concern that I would have would be how much drive pressures increased. I've not ever heard anyone say one way or another... but then most people have no way to measure it. Too much drive pressure is bad news.

 

[RDyson]

The only downside I see is that you are limited to the size of your water/meth tank. Some have done propane injection. It will give you more power, less smoke and cooler egt's. Plus the tank can be way bigger.



Randy

 

[McLaughlin]

Water meth injection also won't help reduce smoke at low boost pressures as the injection doesn't work real well until the boost is 15 psi or so. You may be able to inject lower but you start getting into some squelching problems.

 

[JValdez]

So would propane be the way to go? What would be the long term effects on the reliability of the engine with this used in moderation. Just looking for a little extra safe power.

 

[AndyMan]

I don't think propane is a better option. You can put as big of a tank as you want in your water/meth setup. You can buy as big as 8gal from Snow or Painless Performance... for my purposes, 8 gallons is huge. I reckon if you wanted to, you could put a 300 gallon tank in the bed and plumb it up with a solenoid to keep it from gravity feeding into the system.



There's more handling and safety precautions with propane too. Not to mention the cost of a large tank, regulators, valves, etc. It's definately not a solution for me.



While I realize that water/meth won't reduce smoke (I'm not making any now), it should not ADD to the ammount of smoke I already have. At least no where NEAR what bigger injectors would add.

 

[Ross]

If you've got too much smoke at towing RPM (approx 1900 - 2400), you've got too much turbo. By these RPM's you should have your exhaust totally cleaned up, especially if all you're running is 275's. Even a 100 hp injector will clean up once boost comes in... If you're concerned about smoke at take-off, water/meth won't help that one bit. You've got to be rolling pretty good, and have fairly strong boost before you can bring in the water/meth. By this point, your turbo should be spooled, and you shouldn't be having a serious smoke problem, unless you're making some serious power and have some seriously large injectors.



I've got a Snow water/meth system that I installed to help reduce EGTs. It does add power, and helps a little bit with the cooling too, but is only useful when I'm really on the throttle, such as pulling a hill or passing. I have it coming in at about 27 psi. Towing in the flats or rolling hills, I rarely see boost above 25 psi. I've tried to tune the water/meth to come in sooner, but I get the quench problem. Too much water/meth puts the fire out in the cylinder.



My honest opinion is that water/meth is not that great a deal for towing. It's a hoot for hot-rodding, but I'm gonna sell my system and go straight to a twin-turbo set-up to handle my high EGTs. By the way, I have an 8 gallon tank, and it lasts about 500 miles.

 

[AndyMan]

Ross, lemme know when you pull it and put it in the classifieds please.



Thanks

Andy

 

[evldsl]

What system do you have and for how much?

 

[NoSeeUm]

If you've got too much smoke at towing RPM (approx 1900 - 2400), you've got too much turbo. By these RPM's you should have your exhaust totally cleaned up, especially if all you're running is 275's. Even a 100 hp injector will clean up once boost comes in... If you're concerned about smoke at take-off, water/meth won't help that one bit. You've got to be rolling pretty good, and have fairly strong boost before you can bring in the water/meth. By this point, your turbo should be spooled, and you shouldn't be having a serious smoke problem, unless you're making some serious power and have some seriously large injectors.



I've got a Snow water/meth system that I installed to help reduce EGTs. It does add power, and helps a little bit with the cooling too, but is only useful when I'm really on the throttle, such as pulling a hill or passing. I have it coming in at about 27 psi. Towing in the flats or rolling hills, I rarely see boost above 25 psi. I've tried to tune the water/meth to come in sooner, but I get the quench problem. Too much water/meth puts the fire out in the cylinder.



My honest opinion is that water/meth is not that great a deal for towing. It's a hoot for hot-rodding, but I'm gonna sell my system and go straight to a twin-turbo set-up to handle my high EGTs. By the way, I have an 8 gallon tank, and it lasts about 500 miles.

Is there an option for putting in smaller nozzles? You might try that with lower boost to see how it works.



Jim