Welders - Miller or Lincoln?

[Spooled-up]

I'm looking to get into welding and have signed up for a class at the Lincoln welding school in Cleveland in June. I am thinking of getting a MIG welder and am looking at the 180C 220 volt welders made by Lincoln and Miller.



First off, I'll be welding 12 gauge sheet metal and maybe up to 1/4" steel in some of my projects. Since I don't know that much about welding, should I be going with MIG or should I jump to TIG (which I know is harder to do skill-wise)?



If I go with MIG, will these smaller machines be adequate, or should I be looking at the larger, more expensive (translated - can't afford them right now) welders?



Is there any significant difference between Miller and Lincoln? I'm partial to Lincoln since I will be attending their school, but does anyone have an opinion either way?



Any advice would be appreciated.



-Dave

 

[MA2LA]

I prefer miller. that being said i just purchased import welder off ebay that is a combo tig, stick and plazma cuter and its dual voltage and have been very impressed with it tig welding. they go for under 600 and will do 12 ga mild steel with no problems and if you plug it in to220 i t should handle 1/4 but when you get to that point you should realy use a water cooled torch because you should be at about 110 amp(thats what i used to do 1/4 s/s) the choice between tig and mig comes down to the type of welding you are doing. if its something that is critical or you want to look perfect and or you want to beable to grind and smooth off to the point you want it to look like its one nice smooth piece of metal then tig is the way to go . if you are doing stuck like building bumpers and heavey stuff like that its hard to pass up the ease and speed of a mig

 

[Grizzly]

My choice is Lincoln

 

[RRees]

I have a Lincoln also (have had for 7 years). No problems. Now I just need to learn to use it. Been practicing about 3 times a year.

 

[opjohnny]

Your either blue or red is what my welding instructor said. He also said it does not matter! I would see who(dealer) you got the best service from.

 

[WCPoe]

Miller 180 -vs- 250X

Spooled up, I had an earlier version of the Miller 180, (circa 1990 or so). It looked very similar to the current model except the case didn't have the black trim. I enjoyed it immensely. I started doing some 1/4 inch stuff for my tractor and such so I sold it and now have a Miller 250X with the digital readouts. I thought that bigger was better.

I must tell you that my 4 voltage setting 180 was a breeze to learn on and I wish I had it back today. I even welded a set of tubular exhaust headers for my Prostreet Nova with it. The lighter light gun and short lead was easy to handle and hardly ever kinked or "birdnested" the spool wire.

My 250X on the other hand has a much longer lead and a heavier gun which I believe is a good bit harder to control in certain situations. Even with the supposed better feed rollers and all I have had more jams and feed problems especially trying to stitch weld auto body panels and such. You need to make sure the lead cable is as straight as practical and this helps.

I love the 250X digital readouts but I find myself continually looking up the recommended settings inside the cover. The 180 on the other hand was usually on voltage level 2 for sheet, (unless extremely thin), and on level 3 for the 1/8 material and level 4 for the 1/4 inch stuff. I just varied the wire speed a little one way or another. It was just second nature to weld with.

I guess it boils down to what you'll be doing the most. I still like my 250X but I find that most of my welding projects and the ones I do for my friends are the lighter gauge stuff and I think the 180 would be better suited for.

Just my 2 cents.

Bill

 

[Spooled-up]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm learning how much more there is to learn every day! Looks like there isn't a significant quality difference between the two brands. That's good to know. I can afford a 180 220V welder now and still have money for the helmet, gloves and accessories that I'll need plus the class. Any recommendations on must have stuff for welding in my garage? My first project will probably be a welding table and I'm going to try and find a steel scrap yard to get some of the materials from.



Any tips on stuff a newbie wouldn't know are appreciated!

 

[chuckwilson]

Good welding stores will let you try both, try them out before you buy!!! I have three Millers, I like how they weld!!!! But thats just me.

 

[lil red cummins]

Dave,



personally i don't think TIG is harder. you always have more time to heat your material and control what you are doing, without adding material.



TIG is best for super clean, low build up welds. 95% of the time, no grinding or cleanup beyond a wire wheel is necessary.



it is hard to TIG off the bench though. hand controls help, but can be cumbersome.



MIG is best for "out of position" and upside down welding. MIG is also better for getting more weld applied in less time. that also means less heat distortion which is important on thin material.



dave, since you will be in cleveland for training, you are welcome to visit my shop out in strongsville. it is about 45 mins to an hour south of lincoln's main facility. my welders are mostly used for maintainence and custom fabrication purposes. the TIG is used primarily for aluminum, but is great with stainless and normal steels.



i have a TIG-250, a CV-300, an LN-22 (i think thats the number) portable Mig unit and a G-7 gas driven welder. all are Lincolns. you are welcome to come see and play.



i have nothing against Millers, i have used them and they are fine. at the time i bought mine, Lincoln was easier to get and what our local distributor carried. they now carry both.



hope this helps.



Jim

 

['strokeThis_'07]

For some reason every time I use a Miller I cant lay a bead for the life of me. I have trouble getting Millers to cooperate with the way I want to weld. Lincolns, on the other hand, I pick one up and in less than a minute Ive got it dialed in instead of having to fight it. So for me, Lincoln is the only welder Ill buy. I guess its all in your style (and probably in your head) and even what you learned on. I learned with Lincolns so that may have the bigget impact on my choice; Im comfortable with them.

 

[GOlsen]

We have both Lincoln and Miller at work. They both weld about the same, but I see more Lincolns have problems than the Millers. I've only seen 2 Millers go down, one just needed a new power switch, and the other is a gas powered unit that someone put diesel fuel in. The Lincolns I've seen break have more serious problems that usually require replacement. These welders are mostly high amperage (500+) stick welders, but we have a few Miller MIGs (suitcase), and quite a few self-powered generator type (including a Miller Big Blue Turbo 750a that does stick, mig, tig, flux cored, and air carbon arc. ) That's just my . 02

 

[RBeard]

Welders

Blue is the one for you

 

[CSnyder]

I just bought the Miller DVI unit 2 weeks ago and as my salesman said "this is the perfect welder for dummies". Ive welded a ton with it already and its very easy to use and I didnt take any classes to learn.

 

[CNeubauer]

I've had a Lincoln Power Mig 255 for 8 or 9 years now without any problems and I like it better than the Millers I used in school. I don't think you need to go any bigger for what you want to weld but you might have to watch your duty cycle a little bit on the 1/4" plate. I've welded alot of 1/2" plate with mine on a single pass with beveling and I've never had a weld fail.



#ad

 

[JWChessell]

Don't buy too much equipment before you learn how to weld; the learning process is fairly lengthy. As you get farther into it, you'll know alot more about the various types of welding equipment, which welding process will do what, and you'll have a much better chance at bumping into used equipment at good prices. 3 examples: 1) The jr college where I learned threw a nice Victor 2-stage gauge in the trash, because it was cheaper to buy a new one at their discount prices than to pay for repairing the defective one. I scooped it up and had it repaired; cheaper for me than buying a new one without having the deep discount. 2) I happened to mention to a neighbor that I was taking welding at the JC; he took me over to his garage and GAVE me a 220 volt welder; it works quite nicely and the price was right! 3) Once you're enrolled, you'll probably have an ID card that identifies you as a welding student. That will allow you to get discounts -- commonly 10% -- at welding supply shops. On a state-of-the-art self-darkening helmet, that could amount to around $35 or $40.



Anyhow, at age 55 I started learning at a local jr college: 1 semester of beginning arc, 1 semester of intermediate arc, 1 semester of MIG, then 2 semesters of TIG.



Each class followed the same format: 7 different joints/welds -- pad, butt, lap, T, edge, inside V, outside V (I may have forgotten a couple) -- in each of 5 welding positions -- flat/down, horizontal, vertical up, vertical down, and overhead. That's a total of at least 35 different welds to be mastered for each welding process -- ARC (positive or negative ground), MIG (inert gas or CO2) TIG and others, such as GAS (oxy/acetyl), generally now not offered in the schools. Most people in the class did not finish all 35 in one semester unless they started puting in several hours a week extra.



None of it included reading plans, or becoming certified (different classes which I didn't take) although there was considerable bookwork and classroom learning, reqular tests (paper and pencil) besides welding in the shop, which included performing assigned welds under observation in order to pass.



Each class I was in started with 50 or more students, and finished with 15 or fewer, and it was generally people over age 30 who finished, rather than jr college age students who thought they were going to learn welding quickly (orange hair and tongue-studs come to mind; falling-down pants cured themselves after the first burn) and then make $25. 00/hr. One of the instructors had a clever comment: "You guys (some women also) want to know the shortcut to becoming a good welder? Practice, Practice, Practice. "



It's rewarding to be able to weld well and produce/repair functional things that appear clean, strong, and generally "neat & tidy," such as the assembly shown in the photograph by CNeubauer. But it takes practice, practice, practice.

 

[CNeubauer]

I think JWChessell gives some very good advice and as you get a little experience welding you will get a much better idea on what equipment you really need. For most people it takes years of practice to be a good welder but it seems to be one of those things some people can do and some can't regardless of how how they try. I don't have any real training in welding but I've got close to 15 years of experience doing it and I've probably learned more by finding out what doesn't work than what does. When I first started I welded alot of stuff I'd be embarrassed of today but I wouldn't be the fabricator I am today without the early diasters.

 

[Spooled-up]

O. K. , good advice from everyone. Thank you. I'm now trying to decide which welder to buy in terms of size. My welding will be on a project that I intend to make multiple units of. It will be on 12 ga steel sheet metal, basically welding up a box about 20" long x 15" wide x 10" tall. I'll be welding all the corners and joints where the sides meet.



I talked with a guy at a local welding shop to get his opinion, and he suggested that the smaller 180c I was thinking of getting might limit me in terms of duty cycle. He also said that it was at it's limit if I wanted to weld 1/4" steel. He suggested that I consider the 215 size welder which gives me a longer duty cycle and can easily weld 1/4" steel without beveling the edges or getting it from both sides.



Does TIG welding allow for any thicker material since you can control the heat better or is a welders ability to weld strictly based on amperage?



Should I consider TIG for my application and experience level (none)?

 

[MoparDave]

I'm a Red guy, but thats all I had. I'm sure the Miller just as good

 

[catoiler]

I have a Miller syncrowave 180 and a miller 225 mig and just bought a Lincoln 140 mig for the light sheetmetal work and I have used both over the years and as the others have said it is all in what you like as their is not much differance in the too. I would get A good auto helmet and gloves along with some grinders and clamps as you will always have a use for them and also think about using jigs for ease of repeat parts.

 

[rbattelle]

CNeubauer, what is that in the picture? Looks the the most awesome spare tire carrier on Earth.

I am in no way qualified to discuss the relative merits of Lincoln and Miller. I happen to own a Miller Maxstar 150s, but I have no brand loyalty.

Ryan