Welding on 05 frame.

[dward]

Does anyone know if DC still forbids welding on the 3rd gen frames?

A buddy, who just bought a new 05 2500 qc 4x4, on my recommendation, had a 5th wheel hitch installed.

I told him I didn't think they had changed the welding issues, and to ask for a kit that bolts to the frame.

After checking 2 hitch shops that said they would weld plates on, he went to a reputable, experienced shop and inquired about the kit. He had a used hitch that came with a 5ver he bought.

The owner, who claimed he was the best shop because they were certified welders, the fact that the "owner" is at the shop, yada, yada yada, told him they could get the kit for the Dodge.

When he picked it up, he had welded 4 vertical mounting plates approx. 2x6" to the frame to mount the 5th hitch.

I told him to question the owner, and get something in writing to cover any possible warranty issues.

His 5ver is only around 8k lbs, and I told him I'm sure it will be ok, but it chaps my *** that this "expert" didn't know better. He even said he had gone to a seminar and they said to weld it. Not sure who "they" were.

Any advice or recommendations?

Thanks

 

[jelag]

All my trucks have goose neck hitches in the bed... and all of them bolt on... . we've welded to the frame of each truck to hang brackets, for air tanks, and air horns... . these are no more than spot welds... I saw an ambulance chassis made from a small freightliner where the body builder welded to the frame to mount some major accessories and ruined 1/2 the frame... it was in the dealers body shop and they were changing 1/2 the frame at the bodybuilds expense because of a lot of cracks.....



I'm sure our frames are treated the same way..... I don't think I'd weld to it for anything of importance... .



Jim

 

[jwilliams3]

I would rather have something that is welded to a hydroformed frame.

Rather than drill big holes through it.

 

[Sarge]

Welding on a hydroform frame is discouraged. Tell your friend to call a reputable dealer, and pose a "what if" question. Like, "if I was going to put in a hitch, could I weld it to the frame?". Odds are the dealer will say no welding. How he handles the fact that it has already been done is up to him. If there is a frame crack down the road, he is on his own. Several major hitch manufactures would not have went through the time and expense to design new mounting systems if DC said it was alright to weld the frame.....

 

[MTollman]

My humble opinion.

I have welded for 20 years now and while I have only welded on a couple of frames, I have always been told not to. Also the frames I did weld on for blown out shock mounts or steering box mounts on poorly lifted trucks all got worse over time. Frames as far as I know in general are all treated for strength and when you heat them dramatically you change their molecular structure. This usually means getting more brittle and the cracks just keep coming.



I am not an engineer by any means but this has been my experience and on a brand new $40,000. 00 truck I would be tanning somebodys backside for throwing caution to the wind. Hope all works out for you.

 

[NMansfield]

In my 10yrs of welding I have always been discouraged from welding on ANY truck frame no matter what company it came from. The reason being the frame rails on the truck must be able to flex even if only a 1/16". If a frame is welded on, the welded area WILL become the weakest part of the frame unless you know the exact composition of the metal and can anneal the area back down. Take a look at a semi when you get a chance those 5th's aren't welded in and they're DOT approved. Plus you've got a helluva price to pay if that hitch breaks loose and kills someone.

 

[DPKetchum]

All the major hitch manufactures make them BOLT on. You don't burn the paint or take a chance on frame damage or it breaking loose etc. It can then also be removed if a new truck is purchased and it fits said new truck. I swapped one to THREE differant trucks over a 10 year period. Why weld when a bolt on goes on in less then a couple of hours. Two guys did my hitch(B&W)brake controller and plug in in less then 2. 5 hours. I waited on it. Why WELD??

 

[J&LRam]

dward

sure welding is ok. Go to Dodge Body Builders Guide and they give the specs on bolting and welding to the new hydroformed frames . My '03 has hitch brakets welded to frame for my 12000 lb 5er with no problems at 43000 mi. I have a neighbor that hotshots with a '03 3500 with welded brakets and 160000 mi and pulls 25000+ with no probs. A box frame is better for welding as you are only welding on one side. The old. "C" channel frames were suspect to burn through from welding. These points on welding I heard from the service mgr at my dealer. He got his info from Dodge when trying to repair rear frame on a wrecked truck.

Crawl under your truck and look at all the plates and brackets that Dodge has welded in the assy process... ... . JIM

 

[JHardwick]

Does anyone know if DC still forbids welding on the 3rd gen frames?

I see that the myth still survives

 

[DPKetchum]

No they don't but I can't see the point of welding a hitch in with the problems it could cause when a bolt in is simplier and rated to 30k etc. Whats the point. CHEAPNESS or what.

 

[jwilliams3]

Overload mounts are welded on by DC.

I wonder why they didnt bolt them on?

 

[rbattelle]

Overload mounts are welded on by DC.

I wonder why they didnt bolt them on?

Took the words right out of my mouth. Although I agree that welding on a frame can and will change the heat treatment, if it were such a major concern then why are so many of the suspension and mounting brackets from the factory welded on? Is the entire frame heat treated after all these welds are completed? Or is the welding done on a frame that has been preheated to several hundred degrees and then cooled slowly after welding to ensure proper heat treating?



-Ryan

 

[DPKetchum]

I don't know but I can't see any plus's in welding a hitch on. I can invision more problems created by welding. Such as the PERSON welding and the burn of paint/sparks etc. The bolt on dosen't create have much fuss or muss.

 

[jacqnbill]

The following is a scan and paste of the Dodge Engineering form provided to me by Reese with my bed rail and Dodge installation kit for my hitch. Some mistakes from the text conveter from the HP scanning software.



Dodge Truck engineering Bulletin 03DRJ20902 Issue Oats: December 9. 2002 Dodge Ram Truck BuUetin No: 021 Page I on

Engineering Bulletin



SUBJECT:

APPLICABLE

MODEL LlNE(S):



Dodge Ram Truck Models Frame Alteration Information

Dodge Ram Pickups

APPLICABLE MODEL YEAR(S): 2003

Forward

The following section shows suggested guidelines on modification of Dodge Ram frames

for various after market applications.



Information

Caution: Use of proper safety equipment is recommended when performing any

modifications or alterations



The following recommendations are consistent with industry standards:



DaimlerChrysler Corporation doesn't recommend any modifications or alterations to the frame assembly. Modifications or alterations (Le. hole drilling, welding, etc. ) to the frame assembly are the responsibility of persons performing these modifications or alterations. Anyone altering the frame must assure complete responsibility for assembly, performance, reliability and compliance of applicable FMVSS requirements.



The following procedures and specific precautionary instructions are recommended for proper installation of special bodies and/or equipment ~n the Ram Frame. Failure to follow these recommendations could result in damage to the basic vehicle and possible injury to occupants.



Holes



Holes are not to be drilled in the top or bottom of the frame rails. Holes to mount out*riggers, brackets, and $UPports must be drilled in the web (vertical sides) of the frame rail with the following restrictions:

1) Hole diameter should not exceed 20 mm (0. 75 in. ).

2) Material between edge of hole and top or bottom of the frame rail must not be less

than 40 mm (1. 60 in. ).

3) The minimum edge distance between any two (2) holes must be larger than twice

the diameter of the larger hole.





Engineering Bulletin Page 2



4) Any thru-fastener that torques down on both external surfaces of the rail must use

an internal spacer to prevent crushing the rail tube.

S} All holes should be drilled in the frame using appropriate drilling practice and safety

precautions.

6) Avoid drilling holes near the fuel tank, fuel and brake lines and other lines and wires

to avoid damage to them.

Welding

Prior to any welding, the following must be done:

1) Avoid welding near the fuel tank, fuel and brake lines or other components that may

be damaged by the heat of welding. If it is necessary to weld near these areas, use

wet cloths to cover these components. If it is necessary to remove the fuel tank,

lines or other components, do it in accordance with applicable service manual procedure.

2} Components near the welding area which could be damaged by excessive heat

must be removed or adequately shielded.

3) Disconnect the battery(ies}.

4) Precautionary measures should be used to prevent electrical system components or

wiring damage.

5} Frame e-coating must be removed from the welding and surrounding area.

Use proper welding techniques to avoid stress risers that may adversely affect frame performance.

After welding:

1) Carefully inspect electrical components and wiring for shorts or other damage. 2) Apply protective coating to areas where coating was removed.

 

[SRichards]

I always welded my 30,000lb. gooseneck hitches in all my trucks with not ever having any problems from dodge or anything. Look where the gooseneck hitch goes on the frame that where dodge welded the two frame Joints together!!!

 

[JHardwick]

DC says "I'm not responsible for any frame mods, welding or drilling".



They didn't say welding was "forbidden".



Name me one auto manufacturer that has ever "recommended" welding :-laf



For me, a welded in goosplate is fine. Am I going to move it from one truck to the next? I never have, and it actually becomes a selling tool if you are selling to someone who wants a truck and not a grocery getter with a bed



It cost me $300 each to have my gooseplate welded in to my last three trucks! Thats $900 all told. Both the other trucks sold to someone who was hauling too!



So if you take the 5th or goose out does it increase the resale value with holes in the bed? Heck the groceries could fall out



If you sell a towing rig to a towing customer, they see it as one less step!



I can't see any reason to make a hitch point a temporary thing.

 

[dward]

Thanks for all the good info, I'll pass it along. Seems the consenus is that it is probably better not to weld, but it shouldn't cause any problems.

DP Ketchum, is your B&W the hidden gooseneck/5th wheel that allows for a clear bed? If so, how do you like it and is $1500 installed a reasonable price?

 

[JHardwick]

This subject wears me out for some reason.



DC or no other manufacturer is gonna warrant a weld produced by anybody but themselves.



Can't weld a hydroformed frame :-laf



speaking of urban myths, have any of you ever found the haunted hospital?

 

[WinRice]

I would rather see good welds than holes drilled in the top or bottom frame flanges, that's a failure waiting to happen!

 

[DPKetchum]

Ok. BUT why weld one on when all the major brands are bolt on.