Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Welding the gear case

[illflem]

Think about it, why would Cummins need the two dowel pins for an assembly done on a stand in the wide open with two parts that can only go together one way if they were just for locating? The pins are there to keep the case, which also supports a 50 pound injection pump, lined up correctly, the bolts have play.

The more I think about what the dealer did for Phil the more ticked I get. At least they covered the repair under warranty when the mileage was up. Even if the J-B Welded case holds up you are still going to have to remove the cover, pound in a new pin then contain it.

 

[Briar Hopper]

Unless the part broke along an existing weld, welding as a warranty repair is about as crappy a way to go as I've ever heard. I've got many years of experience welding, even with aluminum, but I wouldn't even want such a fix on my own truck, not even if I did the work myself. DaimlerChrysler(or dealership), you owe the man a new gear cover and an apology !

J-B Weld? Great stuff, but in this instance, don't even go there...

How does this dealership fix leaks in gas tanks? With bubblegum?

 

[Extreme1]

I agree JB weld isn't satisfactory but a properly welded case would be OK.



With regards to the dowel pin's function, if the system is designed properly, the pin is there to locate only during assembly. The bolts are there to clamp the case tightly to the block so it doesn't move. At that point the pins aren't doing anything.



It's just like the lug nuts on my 3500, they clamp the wheels to the hub and the friction from that clamping force keeps the wheel from moving against the hub. If that weren't the case, the weight of the truck would be riding on the center edge of the wheel where it pilots on the hub. The paint would rub off the edge and the back side of the wheel and there would be wear.



If the pins are load bearing during use, the case will shift, oil will leak from the gasket between the block and the case, and the timing will shift slightly. The oil leak will be significant and it will be the clue that things aren't right.



Also, I'd go to another dealer and never go back to that one. They billed DC for R&R of the case to fix it with JB weld? With the cost of the case less than the cost of the labor to change it, it wouldn't take to many botched repair jobs to run up the bill. If they don't make this right, go to another dealer and report the "repair" to the regional zone rep. Sounds like fraud to me, DC will take action against the dealer.



Edit: I'm not trying to start a :-{} but I design mechanical equipment that uses this type of joining method all the time. It is a myth that the pins are there to support the load in a correctly designed system. Also, there would be wear between the hardened steel pin and the aluminum case if the case were trying to move against it.

 

['956Wheel]

Welding aluminum is done with "TIG" (tungsten inert gas) or heliarc as most know it. The material to be welded must be CLEAN in and out, there is NO WAY that these conditions can be met with the aluminum case bolted on to a cast iron block.



I did Navy contract welding, lots of TIG on aluminum and much is acid washed before welding... . and thats new material not cast with oil in the crack.



You, Sleeper have been BS'ed by a mickey mouse, half @ss "mechanic"... do they have a plan for you when your out in the middle of nowhere with no oil in your engine?



Now I see, after scrolling down that they used glue... thats worse! Nothing worse than a inept mechanic!



I did not "candy coat" my reply as I assume you want the truth.



Mike



Extreme, I respectfully disagree with you 100%. If the bolts were of "body bound" design you would be right, but they have play and the pins are needed to locate bearing and gear position not just for assembly.



Pull the case and do it right... IMO

 

[illflem]

Just wondered what happened with this.



Ran across this picture that shows why the case can't be welded or glued without total removal. This type of crack is very typical.



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[Sleeper]

Just as an update, my local dealer, White Rock Chrysler Dodge, has informed me that DC will NOT cover the cost of repair (because the first time I notified them of the problem, I was 7K past my warranty) and that they are having to swallow the work done to date. He also says that the local District Service Manager does not talk directly with customers. I have forwarded my claim to DC Canada, but I'm not holding my breath.



Phil

 

[kchristopher]

Originally posted by Extreme1

It's just like the lug nuts on my 3500, they clamp the wheels to the hub and the friction from that clamping force keeps the wheel from moving against the hub. If that weren't the case, the weight of the truck would be riding on the center edge of the wheel where it pilots on the hub. The paint would rub off the edge and the back side of the wheel and there would be wear.

Are 3500 wheels not hub-centric? I thought my 2500 were... .

 

[Dfeland]

Just to clear something up my dad was the DM for the rocky mountain area (ut,co,nv,mt etc. ) for 20 years. I can guarantee you that the DM WILL be more than happy to talk to a customer. WHY? That's his DAMN job. As usual the stealer is feeding people full of *****. I would take it arbitration without a doubt. If you write them enough letters they will fix it. They know the problem (trust me) and they will make it right if bothered enough.

 

[danandamy]

This whole thing still ticks me off. This is a design flaw, plain and simple. If you're "lucky" it takes a dump in warranty if you make it past, it's you're baby. Nice to know they don't mind gambling with their customers. I repeat, it's a design flaw and they know it, they're just hoping it will get past warranty so the customer can eat it. Granted, when you run the numbers, it IS a very small percentage of folks who have a problem with it... SO FAR. I know, some of you are going to jump up and say, "Hey, you know the fix so prevent it," and I admit the procrastinator I am, I haven't done either one of mine but what about the vast majority of folks out there who own CTD's and know NOTHING about this problem and know nothing about this site? This is right up there with the 5th gear nut fix. Standard transmission can make a fully splined shaft, Dodge has known about this problem for umpteen years and yet, if you buy a new Ram on the lot today with a five speed guess what, it has the same ol' half arsed splined shaft and your nut will fall off eventually. I love my Ram but dang, DC can be awful GM like sometimes.



dan

 

[WDaniels]

Sleeper,

I cannot really say more that what illflem and the others have said except that take it from a guy that had his pin spit out and blow out the top of his case, JB weld, welding and any other type of fix except replacing the case is illegal! The reason that they JB welded it is that DC cut the warranty time from paying for 18 hours of labour to 6 hours. The case is just under 500 dollars plus all the associated gaskets, seal and parts. I did mine and the price of the all the parts was close to 700. 00 The dealership cannot afford to do to many of these fixes before they start to loose their hinder parts. You will not recover the pin due to the fact that when you pull the plug all the way out, the threads extend up beyond the beyond the bottom of the pan, thus creating a lip inside the oil pan. Call the regional manager and complain that they are performing shoddy and unauthorized maintenance on your vehicle. That will get their attention.

I also do not believe that the pin is just for alignment but then the pin does not touch the new case when you mount the case on the engine block, so I'm not sure what it does.

If you want to replace your case, I have a cam removal and installation trough and associated tools to make your job easier. If you would to like to use them, PM me with your address and I well send them on to you so you will not get hit with more expense. That is if you want the stuff.

WD

 

[illflem]

Warren, I hear what you're saying but Sleeper is lucky the dealer did anything at all since he was out of warranty. Could it be that this is in reality good dealer service?

 

[WDaniels]

Good point Bill! While I was in the process of fixing mine a friend blew his out and he was 102,000 and change. They would not fix his either. But in defence of our dealer here. I worked out a deal with our dealer here that they would give me all my parts at fleet discounted prices from now on because up here in the last 4 months I know of at least of 5 kdp's coming out through the case. 3 still under warr. So I can't complain to loud, I generaly get my parts at 1/2 of everyone else or less.

Do we have a list for good dealers like the bad dealer list? The diesel mechanic that our dealer has is awesome. If the rig is bombed and the failure isn't due to the bomb, he repairs it and presses on. He doesn't play the void the warr. game. He's out the help the customer.

WD