Whaaat Bank's Crankin' out 700 H.P !

[NVR FNSH]

A couple of things:



1. I would love to see some real dyno results showing a 15-20% loss from flywheel to the rear wheels. Those kind of loses sound pretty darn high.



2. You can get away with a lot of sins when dealing with a pressurized intake manifold. We all agree that a 'balanced' intake would be the most efficient set-up but sometimes it's just not practical and the minor gains just aren't worth the effort.



Brian

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Don't take the pictures as gospel... .



They could be prototypes that were thrown together just for the press release.



Very seldom do prototype pictures even remotely resemble the shipped product.



As for the intake design... . I will agree that it isn't the best design possible... but with 50psi behind the incoming air just merely having a pipe big enough to flow it is usually adequate... . which is why you don't see too many tunnel-rams on diesels.



Forced induction and compression ignition changes the traditional 4-stroke NA gasser rules that a lot of us are so used to.



No flames intended or implied... .



Matt

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

well not for nuthin' I was once Powerpacked ... ... an d loved it! however it just wasn't enough as I wanted Obnoxious power ... . you know smoke, screaming straight pipe, more power! I think the kit is seamless if you want the kit alone and thats it. Hey good for banks ... ... ... only how many thousands of $$$ are we looking at if this setup goes public?

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

A couple of things:



1. I would love to see some real dyno results showing a 15-20% loss from flywheel to the rear wheels. Those kind of loses sound pretty darn high.



2. You can get away with a lot of sins when dealing with a pressurized intake manifold. We all agree that a 'balanced' intake would be the most efficient set-up but sometimes it's just not practical and the minor gains just aren't worth the effort.



Brian

I was at cummins souther plains in tulsa and watched two 325 Macks roll off a 277 and 276. which is a 15% loss to the drive line. I asked if that was average. They said it was. lowest losses they see on anything are 12% but average 15-20%.



I'm no dyno operator though.



FWIW,

Mark

 

[TxDieselKid]

Looking at this same intake on the engine, in the truck, it looks like they had a problem with clearence, and keeping everything else the way it is. Also it looks like the air horn part is angled to get air to the back of the head even though the front part is larger and would create a vacuum.



Also, has anybody else heard this is an ISBe? Some of yall sound like you think it is an ISB that we have now. If you read the articles they try and make it sound like that too IMO.



Andrew

 

[NVR FNSH]

The intake is angled/sized like that to help promote even distribution to all cylinders. When I worked at AlliedSignal I saw some goofy looking headers on heat exchangers that had to be that way to fully utilize the heat exchanger core. I'm willing to bet that Bank's has done their homework and that the manifold provides for well balanced flow. It's absolutely amazing what can be done with flow analysis software these days.



Brian

 

[Proram]

Banks

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick

Don't forget that they put a $3-4K turbo on it and it's on an engine dyno. Lop off 15-20% for driveline loss and he's back down at the current ISB levels.



A 500rwhp truch has about a 600hp engine... at least 580 for sure.



I'm with Mark K. ! That's not much better RWHP than what where doing right now! There's a BIG differance between Engine Dyno's and real world HP!!! They talk the talk But where's the WALK!!

Put that thing in a 7000lb QC 4x4 and lets talk!

Proram

 

[TxDieselKid]

Re: Banks

Originally posted by Proram

I'm with Mark K. ! That's not much better RWHP than what where doing right now! There's a BIG differance between Engine Dyno's and real world HP!!! They talk the talk But where's the WALK!!

Put that thing in a 7000lb QC 4x4 and lets talk!

Proram

Actually, it's going into a Dakota. I went and looked at the pics in the mag somemoew today, and the engine does resemble an ISB more then the ISBe.



Andrew

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

TDK, the point is that most of the hp gains (the VG turbo!!!) won't fit on the new trucks. the sidewinder is a commonrail motor last I heard.

FWIW,

Mark

 

[Todd T]

not so fast Andy



if you look again. and think about this for a minute the incominig air charge is at a slight angle to the right. this will incline the air to continue to the right as it enters the intake runner.



the air to feed the two cylinders to the left (front) will have to make a harder turn, thus more restricted to get up there. I would love to see a side shot looking in this critter.



its a common misconception that the front cylinders of a stock 12valver intake get more air than the back. I'll bet even you think #6 is starved more than #1. the intake has a tendency to swirl the air in a CC direction through the horn. once it hits the bottom of the head it sends that air to the back of the engine. #1 has to work for his groceries. this is also due to a casting in the way of #1's port.



get yourself an 1100CFM flow bench and let me know what you find

 

[mikeg135]

I just want to know one thing. Where is the intake Tornado?

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Todd T

not so fast Andy

Aint that what I said 2 posts ago?



Andrew

 

[Mopar-muscle]

that intake looks sweet , but where do i bolt on my grid heater ???

 

[JR2]

Heater schmeater... I don't need a grid heater on my 700 HP truck, I will keep it in my garage.



I bet if you removed the grid heater you could gain 30 HP

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

Amen Mark......

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick

I wish I had that budget for parts and labor.



Later,

Mark

You are not alone..... !!!!

 

[nascar mark]

At Diesel Thunder in Spokane a guy from the Dodge dealership brought a 03 dodge with new cummins. We all chiped in and paid for a dyno run. The stock 305hp/555ftlb's engine turned 262hp/483. 2ftlbs at rear wheels.



Thats a 14. 1% hp and 12. 3%ftlb loss at rear wheels. California only gets the 235hp/460ftlb engine.

Looked to me that there was lots of room for a larger turbo under the hood!



Ugly truck design. I believe Dodge has gone the wrong way with our trucks. But this is only my opinion.



mark

 

[Archive]

The HPCR engine's are different... I really dought they took out the stock injectors. . and reinstall them with out modifying them... Come on. . if Any of us pulled a head... and had the injectors out... I think the holes in the tips would get inlarged... most HPCR systems. . the computer doesn't know that the tip is inlarged and it will continue to pore the fuel through the bigger injector. . equalling more HP. . the only noticable change the computer can see is an increase in MAP sensor reading. (and we all know they can easily be fooled. ) Also increasing the rail psi will also increase the fuel delievered. (just don't go over the relief setting, some relief valves are a one time relief. . or close to it. ) And that is before you get into increasing the length of time the injector is open. . and timing...

Marco needs to get started on the ECM for this one...

Bryan

 

[Marco]

Increasing the rail pressure is a NO NO

As you know, here in Europe the CR systems have been arround for some time now. I'm rather familiar with them in several applications.



First of, increasing the rail pressure is a NO-NO!

With the first CR systems the best idea seemed to be to increase the rail pressure. The result was that a bunch of high pressure pumps let go. The problems we're having with the actual VP 44 is nothing in confront to the problems with those high pressure pumps!!!

Too much stress on the High pressure pumps... .



OK?



I don't know too much about the new Cummins. One thing I do know is that it uses also a MAF sensor. So there is another input to the ECM, not only the MAP...



Has the new Cummins one injector with a needle lift feed back signal to the ECM?



Is the CR a generation 1 or 2?



Still a lot of R&D needs to be done...



What I can tell you for sure is that a good ECM file can prduce gobbs of power in a CR system.



Marco

 

[Un-Hemi]

Bryan, Marco needs to complete his current project. As it is, he's well behind the marketing curve in development.



The Second Generation ECM carrot has been dangling in front of us for far too long now and it is getting stale.



My 300th post and I'm sad that it has to be negative.

 

[SOLER]

Don't forget

don't forget that 25 of that HP is from the exhaust brake!!!LMAO



Maybe they got some more from the stamping on the intake alone. You know, those raised letters account for at LEAST . 00004 cubes of additional intake!!!hehehehehehehe