what axle to chain up?

[WTBurke]

Guys... I wasn't referring to plowing, towing or driving on ice in PA... I was referring to just having fun in heavy snow conditions. Industrial applications as such do require chains but, not when "wheeling". Besides, the locations I'm driving in for fun no body would destroy the beauty of the outback... . those who do, are dealt with. I'm proud of the mind set that most "wheelers" have and those who don't know how to conduct themselves with their machine are educated by the majority. Chains that grind and dig down to the sub-straight are for certain applications and it's improper in many other situations. Snow is nothing but fun... . ICE is not... I stay off ICE and if I had to be in ICE conditions I'd run studs. I hate chains... they suck.



The snow above me is 6 to 18 feet deep... the trails (logging roads) are packed by aired-down four wheeling enthusiasts who for the most part are leaving the trail prepped for the next group. NO ONE digs to the mud with chains... we hate that! Morons entering the area are educated by the know-hows and for the most part they enjoy understanding "how" it's done. It's easy to follow experience.



Yes, Montana snow is dry and Sierra cement is very different and conditions require a different mind-set. Here in California up in the mountains it is very funny to see a 4X4 chained up in 4 inches of snow on a paved road... it shows ignorance on the drivers behalf.



As for the original question in this thread of "What axle do you chain?" well... what the heck are you doing? What conditions are you in? What is the application? Are your tires and experience so lacking that you think you need chains? Come on... for the most part why do we have 4X4 rigs? Aside from the boys in Los Angeles with 8 inch lifts and 40's who aren't even on dirt what is the reason to have a 4X4? It's cool to look at?



On the other end of the spectrum is the guy who has a 4X4 and he "CAN GO ANYWHERE!" boy... these guys humble up real quick after their first act of buffoonery in conditions they know nothing about.

It's a grand view to behold:-laf



It all comes back to personal choice and I really don't care what other guys do with their 4X4's as long as they don't wreck stuff for others and give us all a bad name with the general public.



Cheers,

William

 

[Tom Schuster]

If you chain your 4x4 CTD you lack some common knowledge? The problem with statements like this, besides being insulting to many of us, is that they fail to take into account a wide range of situations you might find yourself in--especially if you use your truck to make your living. Ever had a loaded trailer drag your truck backwards down a grade on an icy, snow-packed road? Roads so icy you can't walk on them without falling on your a__? You won't be saying chains suck when you find yourself in those situations because they are what's keeping you from being jack-knifed in the ditch or shiny side down in the trees. It's nice to say if it's that bad don't go out but sometimes a guy's job might require that he does.

Two weeks ago our fire department got called out to a medical emergency at a house up a steep, icy road that looked like it had been groomed by a Zamboni. I got to the entrance about the time the helicopter landed and got the job of transporting the flight nurse and paramedic up to the scene--after I chained up the front axle with v-bar chains that bit into that road. Could I have done it without chains--probably--but why take a chance? Does that make me an uninformed idiot? The answer is no. In that situation, the idiot is the guy who prevents life saving care from reaching the patient because he didn't chain up and slid off the road.

Last winter I was on my way up a steep private road to check on a customer's house with the front axle chained-up. While making a three point turn on the hill in front of his gate I had the back of my truck swing around on the ice in about half a second and I started going backwards toward a drop off. This is with studded and siped Toyo M-55 tires on the truck. What saved me was the front chains digging in after I popped the clutch. I got out and put the triple rails on the rear duals to get out of there.

Sure, 95% of the time these trucks are going to get through without chains. If your never encounter steep grades or mountain roads sloped out- ward for drainage make it 99. 9% of the time. Four inches of fresh packed snow on a paved road for someone who is not towing is no problem. However, add some grade, don't plow the road, let it see traffic that packs that snow down hard, and let the surface thaw and refreeze a couple of times and those oversize tires are going to be four big toboggans. Hook-up to a heavy trailer and good luck.

I don't know about "wheeling" or whatever it is you do with your truck but what I do with mine sometimes requires chains--which is why they ride in the back all winter long. I'll be sure to throw them on if I ever need to pull you out the ditch.

 

[BigEasy]

Absolutely Tom, you hit many nails very square on the head. As for William, I understand the conditions of which you speak... apparently, you have NO CLUE what folks in other parts of the country have to deal with. Obviously, when there's 6-15' of snow, chains wouldn't help. Snow is much like mud, narrow tires and chains are better if there is a bottom to be reached... if it's too deep, you need flotation, and wider, soft tires with no chains. Around here, we can get a little bit of everything, but try February when there's 3-4' of snow on top of the frozen ground and it's raining buckets... you'll damn sure wish you had CHAINS!

 

[WTBurke]

Guys... I wasn't referring to plowing, towing or driving on ice in PA... I was referring to just having fun in heavy snow conditions.



Tom... Big Easy... lighten up... re-read the first sentence. And as for "wheeling" in the situations where I'm specifically referring to... Tom, this Butte boy don't need your help:-laf



Thanks

William

 

[Tom Schuster]

William-



It's all good. I was just busting your chops because of the statements you made in your first post which might give someone who honestly doesn't know about chaining-up the wrong idea. I understand why you don't chain-up when your out in a big powder field. You won't find me out there anyway because my truck would sink, aired down or not. Besides, isn't that what snowcats are for? Feel free to stop in next time your up Kalispell way.



Tom

 

[WTBurke]

(I'm a snowboarder and we call our snow "Cascade Concrete"). I've just kept really good tires on her.



This is quite funny as the "play on words" with the boys up north calling it "Cascade Concrete" and those of us south calling it "Sierra Cement" in deed... the Pacific north west has a much higher moisture content in the falling snow.



Tom, thanks, I'll be back to Butte in late November in 2009. The projects I'm in has limited my travel to a certain extent. I will also say Montana driving in snowy conditions is much harder on vehicles due to the rock content of the sanding procedures. I take more cosmetic damage on a single run into Montana then driving 2 years here in northern Kalifornia. They lay down much cleaner stuff here in sissy land and of course less road milage to be concerned about. I really shouldn't say "sissy land" because northern Cal is much different from the rest of the state... . there are some good ol' boys up here:-laf



To bad so many of the Bezerkely and Davis butt-heads are occupying Missoula... let me know when you boys need help cleaning those infestations out... I figure it'll take only a day or two:-laf All my cousins in Butte say they taste like chicken:-laf



Cheers,

William

 

[icman95]

After traveling the same road in Maine for winter vacation for the better part of a decade, last year I finally needed chains. The conditions became so bad that even the road grader they use to clear the 8-mile logging road got stuck with its 4 chained drive tires. There is no shame in using chains. Every vehicle our hosts own is chained. After we got unstuck several times, we went into town and bought chains. We got a different opinion on which axle from everyone we asked. The discussions went exactly like they are doing here, but we ended up chaining the front. My thinking was that it was only to go the 8 miles in and then back out of the camp. The weight over the front wheels does help immensely. If we were leaving them on for a long distance I would either put them on both axles or just the back. I have to believe that it is pretty hard on the front axle, more so than the back. But with an unloaded dually the front was probably more effective.

 

[Bob Cochran]

I think we need to keep in mind what was originally asked. I think the question what axle to chain and I am assuming we are talking on a paved road. In that case it be rear as the speeds will be somewhat higher and in all probability the state your in laws will tell you which axle is required to be legal. Now if wheeling on forest road and play around chaining is not required and probably not necessary depending on depth of snow and the type of tires you have on and if they are aired down. Nobody likes to rip up a forest road and here in Arizona if you rip them up and get caught you have to pay to have them repaired!!! Some hunters have found out the hard way and it does not matter; if they are muddy and you don't use chains it can still cost you. If it is icy and chains is a must and going very slow I think on back roads chaining the front axle makes since and have done that when it is like being on an ICE RINK!!

So this means everyone is right depending on the situation. I can say this I have never gotten more stuck than in a 4X4 perhaps because my A__ over road my good sense!!! That particular time I am thinking of required chains and winch to get out along with another 4X4 friend god what a mess but sure was fun. It was unintentional and under today req's I would have had to pay to repair that area

 

[icman95]

So I'd like to turn it back on the original poster, doncoons and just for curiosity's sake find out under what conditions he will be driving. While there is no right or wrong answer, I would have to agree that on pavement the rears would be best, and off road or dirt roads at slow speeds the front might work out better.

 

[Tom Schuster]

I would say that when pulling a trailer chain the rear axle always. The trailer turns the back of the truck into a pivot point. If you're towing on a steep secondary or forest service road you may want to chain the front as well (all of this is assuming your truck is a 4x4 with good traction/snow tires). I can't imagine a situation where you would need more than the rear axle chained while towing over a pass on the interstate with a four wheel drive truck--well I can, but all the plow trucks would be stuck, too.

Back roads or off-road it all depends. William is talking about recreation where you want flotation above the snow and want to avoid digging down into a deep base and losing traction which, in his situation, is what will happen with chains. I'm talking about traveling on an established road that is seeing some sort of maintenance-plow truck or grader and you have some sort of compelling reason to be traveling.

If you only have one set of chains, a basic rule to keep in mind on mountain roads with a four wheel drive truck is to chain the uphill axle-thus chain the front for uphill travel, chain the back for downhill travel. The reason for this is that, in really slick conditions, the uphill part of the truck will often try and pass you--see my previous post. Obviously mountain road driving involves both uphill and downhill so it's best to have chains for both axles if you have to travel in those conditions. The day my truck did a 180 on me I hadn't put the rear chains on -lazy or thought I could get away without them-and I got surprised as soon as I started to back up that hill.

A good point to remember that has been mentioned on this board before is to watch your tire tread when driving in the snow. If your tread is coming up white with snow of them you've got pretty good traction. If they are coming up clean, not so much. It's when they're coming up clean on steep grades thats you want to be thinking about chains.

To me, my biggest problem with chains is making the decision to put them on. As William says, these trucks are very capable in the snow and will take you a lot of places without them. It's alway tempting to try and make it through without going to the trouble. Since I drive a dually, putting triple rails on the back axle involve lying under the truck to get them on and tighten the cams. It's a mess on a good day. As I have learned, however, it is worse on a sidehill, sideways, six inches away from a tree while the truck is slowly creeping downhill on the ice. Unfortunately, the judgement about when to put them on only comes after a few incidents like this that you don't want to repeat.

One more thing, if you're running chains you better have a way to repair them. Eventually you will break cross-links. You won't like what a flying cross-link will do to your truck. Chains the are used a lot require regular maintenance--lay them out on the shop floor and take a good look before you throw them in the truck. Keep a good set of chain pliers and repair links in the truck--you will need them.

 

[Bob4x4]

Back in the 70's I had a Chevy built for sand travel... ... ... it had 18. 5" wide tires that stood 40" tall with a mild AT pattern. I could tow my trailer up the dunes to find a nice quiet place to camp. In the snow it worked ok till you got to the icy patches then it was fun as long as there was nothing solid to test.

In the ice the chains had to come out and in most conditions the front axle was the one that got hooked up first.



Bob

 

[thashane]

How about this... Chains or wires?

 

[JDiepstra]

Chains? From Butte Montana at minus 30 degrees over the Minada Pass at 3am in a true blizzard I've never chained up a four wheel drive. Of course I don't have street tires and I don't drive like an idiot. In the back country high in the Sierra Mountains well off the paved roads it's called "wheeling". Everyone who is there is "aired-down" to the maximum without popping the "bead". Anyone entering the area caught with "chains on" are delt with. Their chains are cut-off with bolt cutters. Yes... there have been many angry words of exchange. Funny... no cell phones work that far back into the mountains and calling the Hiway Patrol won't work. The "new buffoon" learns from the Anarchy-crowd how to conduct himself in the snow. Aired-down, you get up on top of the snow and pack it. You tip-toe along like a ballerina and never,never dig holes. Tread lightly is the law of the land... speed is not the quest... safety is.

Chains are for the inexperienced and faint of heart average driver who doesn't have a clue. The Hiway Patrol has no time to deal with thousands of idiots (look at Interstate 80 east of Sacramento) on a snowy Friday evening before a big ski weekend. I've been in all the situations but, I've been taught by some of the best on how to survive and drive.

Not to offend anyone here on the TDR but, if you chain your 4x4 CTD you lack some common knowledge. Chained up will take you quite a long way until you dig in so deep you're bottomed out and you then deserve a good slapping. Airing down with an ARB up front will take you much farther... if your heart will hold out. These trucks will exceed the "fear factor" of most people who own them. Get with someone who knows... it will pay off in the long run.



William

Wowwee you are the most awesomest guy ever!

 

[Bob Cochran]

I would be careful with those bolt cutters. I read some where 3 guys was in the process of doing this and was arrested. Unfortunately the guys truck they was going to do this was an off duty Sheriff. He was armed and placed the under arrest. Not sure the charge it was awhile ago I read this. I wonder what would have happened if this guy had just been an armed citizen not a sheriff? Could be a heck of a price to pay for a lesson!!!

Chains? From Butte Montana at minus 30 degrees over the Minada Pass at 3am in a true blizzard I've never chained up a four wheel drive. Of course I don't have street tires and I don't drive like an idiot. In the back country high in the Sierra Mountains well off the paved roads it's called "wheeling". Everyone who is there is "aired-down" to the maximum without popping the "bead". Anyone entering the area caught with "chains on" are delt with. Their chains are cut-off with bolt cutters. Yes... there have been many angry words of exchange. Funny... no cell phones work that far back into the mountains and calling the Hiway Patrol won't work. The "new buffoon" learns from the Anarchy-crowd how to conduct himself in the snow. Aired-down, you get up on top of the snow and pack it. You tip-toe along like a ballerina and never,never dig holes. Tread lightly is the law of the land... speed is not the quest... safety is.

Chains are for the inexperienced and faint of heart average driver who doesn't have a clue. The Hiway Patrol has no time to deal with thousands of idiots (look at Interstate 80 east of Sacramento) on a snowy Friday evening before a big ski weekend. I've been in all the situations but, I've been taught by some of the best on how to survive and drive.

Not to offend anyone here on the TDR but, if you chain your 4x4 CTD you lack some common knowledge. Chained up will take you quite a long way until you dig in so deep you're bottomed out and you then deserve a good slapping. Airing down with an ARB up front will take you much farther... if your heart will hold out. These trucks will exceed the "fear factor" of most people who own them. Get with someone who knows... it will pay off in the long run.



William

 

[hammersley]

The front works great

And I might add when we have ICE - You will NOt GO FREAKING ANYPLACE without chains... . and even ambulances and fire trucks CHAINED up a month ago couldn't get into my neighborhood - because of ICE and I mean REAL ICE not your sissy stuff!! And BTW my neighbor has a highly modified jeep he uses for Off Road only - it slid to the bottom of our hill with all 4 wheels churning at about 2-3 mph... ... gravity won until he CHAINED UP! Oh and it took him 30 min to CRAWL back up to his house - 300 yards!!!

#ad

 

[Bob4x4]

And I might add when we have ICE - You will NOt GO FREAKING ANYPLACE without chains... . and even ambulances and fire trucks CHAINED up a month ago couldn't get into my neighborhood - because of ICE and I mean REAL ICE not your sissy stuff!! And BTW my neighbor has a highly modified jeep he uses for Off Road only - it slid to the bottom of our hill with all 4 wheels churning at about 2-3 mph... ... gravity won until he CHAINED UP! Oh and it took him 30 min to CRAWL back up to his house - 300 yards!!!



#ad

I agree 100 percent on the ice thing. Snow you have many options but on the ice going up hill around an off camber turn... ... ... ... ... ... ...



Bob

 

[JDiepstra]

And I might add when we have ICE - You will NOt GO FREAKING ANYPLACE without chains... . and even ambulances and fire trucks CHAINED up a month ago couldn't get into my neighborhood - because of ICE and I mean REAL ICE not your sissy stuff!! And BTW my neighbor has a highly modified jeep he uses for Off Road only - it slid to the bottom of our hill with all 4 wheels churning at about 2-3 mph... ... gravity won until he CHAINED UP! Oh and it took him 30 min to CRAWL back up to his house - 300 yards!!!



#ad

Oh you better be careful... . I hear there are a bunch of real tough cowboys with bolt cutters out there teaching people with chains a lesson!

 

[Bob4x4]

Oh you better be careful... . I hear there are a bunch of real tough cowboys with bolt cutters out there teaching people with chains a lesson!

Brokeback :-laf:-laf:-laf



Bob

 

[icman95]

Me likey bumper. What brand?

 

[hammersley]

It's a

Buckstop Bumper..... they make all types..... REALLY HD and attachments are fantastic...



BUCKSTOP Truckware - Heavy-Duty Winch Bumpers for Ford, Dodge, Chevy Trucks and SUVs