What brand of oil should I use

[Hohn]

Dino questions from a syn guy

As I posted earlier, I am a syn kind of guy, but I am curious about the new dino oils.



I currently run Delo 400. I changed the factory oil in my truck @ 500miles, put in Rotella. Did another change around 5500 (i think, log is in the truck), but went with Delo.



Is Delo the best dino oil? I thought someone said it is super-refined (iso-dewaxed or something). What is it in Rotella that makes it smell (and if it didn't help the oil, why would they put it in?)?



I know so many people that SWEAR by rotella in anything that has an engine. Even the 10w-30 for cars seems to go for about 1. 50/qt-- more than all the other dino gasser oils (they're about 1. 20 here).



I know Delvac has quite a rep, and I am considering trying the Delvac 1, or Rotella Syn.



I am thinking of abandoning my Redline plans-- $30 a gallon is way more than even other synthetics.



My engine seems very happy with the Delo-- seems to run a little smoother than with the Rotella. The Delo is VERY clean after 3K miles of 100% stop and go and WFO driving. When my truck hits 10K, I will probably quit going from oil to oil, and just stick with one.



Next, I am curious about bypass setups. Part of me thinks that Delo and bypass would be more economical than synthetic and regular filtration. Who has AMSOIL bypass? What about oilguard?





Who has analysis results of one dino oil against another??



Hohn

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I'll undoubtedly take some heat fr this, but I have consistently noticed, all things being equal, that oil analysis with synthetics are a few points HIGHER in wear metals - most notably, iron... And while the synthetics supporters will undoubtedly challenge that observation, it was also confirmed in the SAE paper I quoted further above, and THEY were presenting that paper in SUPPORT of synthetics!



Now, synthetics offer plenty of offsetting BENEFITS to counter that, such as cold and hot temperature performance - and it's hard to predict if an additional 20% or so of wear metals translates into 20% less engine life - so a fella has to make his own decisions, and come to his own conclusions... But I tend to agree that use of a good dino oil soch as Rotela or Delo, combined with a good bypass filter is pretty hard to improve on in typical, overall use...



I'd like to confirm some of these issues with my own truck - but with only 8000 miles on it, and not fully broken in, results would not be conclusive...

 

[John Berger]

Gary, I wish I could confirm that as well. Problem is, I didn't start oil analysis until I went to 10K drain intervals when I started using Amsoil. I'll go out on a limb here and speculate that the reason iron wear numbers may end up higher with synthetic oil than dino oil is that most synthetics are run for longer intervals than dino oil would be. I can't believe that in all of the ways synthetics are superior to dino lube that they would wear an engine faster. That contradicts the purpose of synthetic oil. I'm not saying it isn't so, it just doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[Sled Puller]

Gary,

If that were the case, there would be many, many Amsoil customers with engines completely wore out at 100,000 miles.



Remember, they have been doing synthetics, since 1972,3 years ahead of Mobil, and went 25,000 miles a change, right from the get go. In 1972!



20% MORE wear, is too much to hide, over 30 years.



But then again, just because an oil says"SYNTHETIC" on the label, does not mean it is automatically good.





Personally, I think you guys should argue dino verses synthetic oil,on one thread, figure out what is best, then argue the winner against Amsoil on another thread.

I don't like seeing Amsoil lumped in with the bandwagon boys.



But I'm biased.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by Sled Puller

Remember, they have been doing synthetics, since 1972,3 years ahead of Mobil... .

We're not counting synthetics such as Mobil Jet Oil II and Esso 2380 that were available for aircraft and aero-derivative gas turbines prior to 1972, I suppose.



Rusty

 

[Sled Puller]

No, automotive oil.



Amsoil was the first-get this, how ironic- A. P. I. APPROVED synthetic on the market, for cars.



The Germans ran synthetics WAYYYYYYYY back.

 

[RustyJC]

Yes, I just thought it appropriate to point out that synthetic oil technology existed long before 1972.



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

John, when I referrred to the seemingly higher Iron content in oil analysis and synthetics, that was in relation to similar mileage with the dino stuff - it would be understandable if mileages were UNequal...



Sled sez:



"Personally, I think you guys should argue dino verses synthetic oil,on one thread, figure out what is best, then argue the winner against Amsoil on another thread. "





ACTUALLY, what *I* would like to see, is a good debate on the value of bypass filters - we seem to get so wound-up on the synthetics vs dino oils, that we tend to ignore what *I* feel is a FAR greater benefit available to our engines in the form of a good oil bypass filtering system... I would personally choose the POOREST rated name-brand diesel oil in my truck, WITH a bypass filter, over the VERY BEST rated oil - synthetic or otherwise - WITHOUT a bypass filter installed...





"I don't like seeing Amsoil lumped in with the bandwagon boys.



But I'm biased. "



Absolutely NOTHING wrong with being biased, or enthusiastic, over what you truly believe in - I tend to be a bit biased about my Dodge, compared to Fords and Chevies...

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q



ACTUALLY, what *I* would like to see, is a good debate on the value of bypass filters - we seem to get so wound-up on the synthetics vs dino oils, that we tend to ignore what *I* feel is a FAR greater benefit available to our engines in the form of a good oil bypass filtering system... I would personally choose the POOREST rated name-brand diesel oil in my truck, WITH a bypass filter, over the VERY BEST rated oil - synthetic or otherwise - WITHOUT a bypass filter installed...

I feel just the opposte, Gary.

I think with a really good oil, and a top of the line full flow,a By-Pass is overkill!

Maybe with excessive fuel, I should be considering one, though, to help with the soot removal.



A By-Pass won't keep a substandard oil from burning up, in an extreme situation. .

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Maybe food for discussion... My last oil analysis on my old '91, with nearly 120,000 miles on the clock, the Frantz bypass filter and Rotella, for 5000 miles came back with:



Aluminum = 2

Chromium = 1

Iron = 8

Copper = 1

Lead = 1

Tin = 0



My first analysis on the new truck, NO bypass filter, and Delo 400, 4000 miles:



Aluminum = 2

Chromium = 2

Iron = 19

Copper = 9

Lead = 4

Tin = 1



This was my *3rd* oil change on the new truck - but admittedly, still early breakin (tho' heavy RVing use and steep grades were involved!) miles, and NO bypass filter - I now have the Frantz installed - but need another several thousand miles for next sample to compare...



Now, I realize that Rotella is a good brand - and when I say "poorest" name-brand diesel oil, that probably wouldn't be Rotella, but it wouldn't be the cheapie stuff re-labeled and sold at the corner drugstore, either - but reasonable stuff perhaps just below Delo and Rotella...



SO, looking at the above 2 examples, *I* can honestly say that I VASTLY prefer the TOP analysis with the FAR lower numbers, and seriously doubt that even with a somewhat lower-class oil those numbers would be much different. And unless really SERIOUS stresses are placed upon the Cummins, or unusual high temperature extremes, I also seriously doubt the cheaper oil is much more likely to "burn up" than the others... As far as I'm concerned, what separates the cheaper dino oils from the top brands, is slighly better performance and quality out of the bottle, and significantly longer lifespan - much like the claims for synthetics over dino oils...



I realize some members here have claimed that the bypass filters skew oil analysis by REMOVING contaminents and wear metals that would otherwise show up on analysis - and all I say to that, is GREAT!



That is EXACTLY why I put one one my truck - I choose to NOT have that garbage circulating and REcirculating thru my engine - small abrasives destroy the same as LARGE ones do, just a bit more slowly, and *I* don't want that garbage in my engine!



Otherwise, even WITH bypass filtering, the same trends in wear metal and contaminents STILL are evident, just in different percentgae levels!

 

[TxDieselKid]

I am thinking about going to synthetic soon, but doubt I will do extended drain periods. I am at 9,253 miles since my last oil change, and it was Rotella. Wantta talk about some black oil?



I think the bottom line is for everyone to make the decision for themselves. It's just like trannys, you need to do the research for yourself.

 

[Sled Puller]

IMHO, Gary, if those two engines carried those same results for 500,000 miles?



At tear down, I bet you could not measure the difference.

Parts Per Million are pretty tiny.

 

[amsoilman]

ACTUALLY, what *I* would like to see, is a good debate on the value of bypass filters - we seem to get so wound-up on the synthetics vs dino oils, that we tend to ignore what *I* feel is a FAR greater benefit available to our engines in the form of a good oil bypass filtering system... I would personally choose the POOREST rated name-brand diesel oil in my truck, WITH a bypass filter, over the VERY BEST rated oil - synthetic or otherwise - WITHOUT a bypass filter installed...

For some of you that want a good comparison between the Amsoil engine oil and a competitors engine oil with a by-pass system, I will tell you of a test that was conducted a few years back by

“YACHTING MAGAZINE”. This test was featured in their Magazine.



They installed Amsoil synthetic 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine engine oil, and an Amsoil “Full-flow” filter, as well as a By-pass oil filter system from Amsoil. These items were installed in the “port”, left side engine of a Tiara 2700 “Pursuit” Sports Fisherman Boat. The other engine on the “Starboard”, right side engine was filled with its conventional brand engine oil and filter, which was not mentioned. Both engines were 265 HP Volvo gas engines, and were mounted in the engine bay running side by side in the same environment.



The test used periodic oil analysis as a gauge for how much wear the two engines experienced, and was also used to determine when the oil needed to be changed.

The test was run for 17 Months and a total of 880 Engine hours.



An initial oil analysis sample was taken prior to the test on both engines’ running petroleum oil for 100 hours to compare their wear patterns. These initial samples with 478 engine hours showed both engines had similar wear patterns and histories. 11 more samples were taken over the test period at the same time and sent to an independent oil analysis laboratory (Analysts Maintenance Labs Inc. , Illinois).



During the 17 Months of the test, the Amsoil engine oil was changed only once at 665 engine hours, with 187 hours on the oil, and 14 months into the test. The petroleum oil was changed twice, once at 596 engine hours and 118 oil hours, and again at 665 engine hours, but with only 69 hours on the oil.



At the end of the test with 215 hours on the oils, here are their findings.



Petroleum oil:

3. 0 percent Total Solids, Aluminum 28 ppm, Iron 290 ppm, Copper 74 ppm.



Amsoil oil:

1. 0 Percent Total Solids, Aluminum 8 ppm, Iron 144 ppm, Copper 16 ppm.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

Wow this one is going on forever,



I must be nuts, but here is my 2 cents.

As some of you know I built a Cummins Crew Cab a while back using an "early" 1991 D350 with a 54" sleeper for a donor. That truck had 730,000 hard miles on it. It spent its life pulling a 3 car hauler cross country. When I got the truck, the getrag was junk and Cummins smoked like a train, and the injection pump put more diesel on the ground than in the engine The entire truck was loaded with stress cracks, the class 4 hitch was ripped clean off the truck. When I tore down the Cummins here is what I found,

Inside the engine was COMPLETELY clean,

The cam showed considerable wear,

Valve train was shot, valves, guides, seats.

The crank showed NO WEAR !,

The WORST Cylinder taper was . 028 !

And get this, someone had installed 3, 7mm injectors in the 9mm head without using the sleeves, the rest of the injectors were 9mm.

This was a neglected dino oil truck and the Cummins still outlasted the truck!

So with that in mind, why spend all that money for synthetic oil, if the Cummins is going to outlive the truck anyway if I do regular maintenance and oil changes ? I rather spend some of the cash saved on BOMBING Mods and go Yee Ha all the way to the bank .

Kyle

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by CrewCabDiesel

This was a neglected dino oil truck and the Cummins still outlasted the truck!

That pretty much sums it up, been proven over and over again.

I need to see a Amsoil or Syn oil truck top 1,000,000 miles like the Dino oil ones have ALREADY done in order to prove their superiority (or equivalency ?).



Saying that my oil has 14PPM of something and your oil has a whopping 28PPM sounds worse that it really is. PPM = Parts Per Million. Do a graph and show 1 million in one column and 14 and 28 in the other columns. :-laf The one million column would be 89 feet high and the 28PPM about 1/32" high and the 14PPM about 1/45" high. You have to keep the numbers in perspective, 28 sounds a whole lot bigger than 14 but compared to one million both are, well, not much different.



This is a hobby and if you like cutting edge technology in oil formulation and filter technology, go for it! I'll be happy to see what you find out. But whatever you do ( as long as you at least follow the OEM requirements) the engine will out last the truck.

 

[illflem]

Some folks tend to forget that the B-5. 9 was originally a designed as a tractor engine with export to third world countries in mind. Made to withstand the rigors of poor fuel, oil and maintenance...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"So with that in mind, why spend all that money for synthetic oil, if the Cummins is going to outlive the truck anyway if I do regular maintenance and oil changes ? I rather spend some of the cash saved on BOMBING Mods and go Yee Ha all the way to the bank . "





YUP - sorta tells the story, don't it!

 

[Sled Puller]

Uh,, yea, the synthetic guys have never said anything but what illflem has said.

The extra wear protection is nice, but I use a synthetic for the other benefits.



There is nothing WRONG with a PSD neither, I just choose to own a Cummins!!!!

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

What other benefits ? Better Mileage ? . I don't buy the extended drain intervals, if there is soot and other bad stuff in the oil, get rid of it and put new in. Would you hang your garbage on the wall in your house to save a couple of trips to the dump ? I do agree that there is benefits from synthetic oil in extreme climates, and extreme loads and abuse, but someone like me in the middle of the U. S. , I think just doing 3000-4000 mile oil changes on a mildly bombed truck, the Cummins will run the wheels off of the truck. I do use AMSOIL in my NV4500 and Axles because of the benefits of smoother shifting and better wear, but we all know that if the rest of the drive train was built like the Cummins, these trucks would out last us . I will ,when going on a trip thru the mountains I change over to AMSOIL for the trip, but the rest of the time I run Shell Rottella 15W-40.

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by CrewCabDiesel

What other benefits ?



I do agree that there is benefits from synthetic oil in extreme climates, and extreme loads and abuse, .

Thank You.



Do you always answer your own questions?