2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission What do you like about your 2nd generation truck, compared to the 3rd?

[Gary - K7GLD]

Admittedly, many here are handicapped on this subject, since most of us have no direct experience upon which to base our opinion - but let's give it a try...



1. I *vastly* prefer the external styling of the 2nd generation trucks - extremely smooth and visually appealing, and well balanced.



2. More attractive treatment of the dashboard and instrument panel



3. A suspension that seems better suited to heavy-duty use without noticeable sag or droop of the rearend.



4. Use of a rugged and proven differential.



5. An engine design that still functions with power and economy at lower RPM in keeping with the diesel tradition.



6. Seats that remain comfortable, even for larger individuals and on long trips.



7. a FULLY functional overhead computer.



That will do for a start - I sorta hate to get into some of the mechanical issues - we fully realize and acknowledge the failings and weakness of the 24 valve fuel delivery system - but also recognize significant 3rd generation issues with driveline vibration, frequent paint quality issues and differential whines and howls - as well as significant need for rebuilds or outright replacements.



This isn't intended as a "us" against "them" thread - but since the third generation guys have a similar thread going, it seems fair we sorta promote OUR choice as well!



Next?

 

[Joe G.]

I like my '95 because it looks good, is comfortable, and I can fix anything on it (except stereo) without resorting to electronic equipment other than a cheap meter.



P7100 pump!!

 

[bmoeller]

I second that Joe. Like the dash and exterior looks better on my '97.



The brakes and steering response are much improved over the 2nd gens though.

 

[rrausch]

Ditto on what Joe said!



Also, IT'S PAID FOR!



I love that I have a good Dana 70! And I love the styling too.



If the Enviromental Wacko's ever get total control and ban diesels, they'll have to pry my cold dead fingers away from the steering wheel to get mine away from me!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"The brakes and steering response are much improved over the 2nd gens though. "



Can't comment on either of those from a hands-on perspective - but the 4-wheel discs on my '02 sure stop well - and it's pretty hard to imagine the steering being any BETTER!



Lots of minor improvements to the 2nd generation stuff as time passed - and it might not be accurate to compare the operation of the early 2nd genny stuff to the later 2nd generation stuff, either... I know my '02 is a much different truck in terms of ride, handling and stopping ability compared to my brother-in-laws '94...

 

[fkovalski]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

... I *vastly* prefer the external styling of the 2nd generation trucks ...

This is where I prefer the 2G's as well. I finally got used to the HUGE grill now (and kinda' like it. ) But look closer... this may sound picky... but, look at the front hood (on the 2 G's) where it meets the side front fender and the door at the windshield. CLEAN! Definite, sensible breaks of the body parts. Harkening back to the distinct (extinct?) body parts of stylish pick ups of the 50's.

Now here's the part on the 3G's that I dont like (call me picky)... Look at that same point on the new ones. There's the part of the front fenders that curves up and meets the windshield separating the hood and the door. To me it's doesn't seem to look right. I know some will say it's just a minor point, but I think that the design department could have kept more lineage to the 3G's and this it one "minor" area that would have done so.

JMO. -frank.

 

[Black Cloud]

Ok, honestly my 2000 compared to the 3rd gen is now outdated. I like the 3rd gen body style, speaking of only a 4x4 quad cab dually over my truck. I guess the only thing I would change on the 3rd gen is the interior which I prefer the interior in my truck more. It hurts my pride to say that but don't get me wrong I really do love my truck but it doesn't hurt my bank account at all. Some day I'll go for a newer Ram, but only if it has four real size doors and it still has a Cummins.



Peace

 

[nfox]

2nd Gen

The seats really suck in the 3rd gen and the 3rd gen crew cab is a joke!!Oo.

 

[NVR FNSH]

I went and test drove a 3G just for grins - a 6spd 4wd just like my '00. I wanted to see if the 6spd shifting had been improved over the years. Well, the shifting was about the same but man I like how quiet the 3G is. That's about the only real difference I noticed in my short test drive. I suspect the headlights are significantly better than my standard (non-sport) headlights.



Brian

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

As to styling differences, much is entirely objective in the view of the individual - and while some refer to the 2nd gennies as "dated", I really consider it a classic design, and that even as GM was eventually forced to "upgrade" from the classic styling of the '55, '56 and '57 chevies, they will ALWAYS be classics in the tradition of the '40 Ford and various other styling benchmarks - some stuff might change under pressure for "progress" - but not always an improvement...



As to headlights, the ones on my '02 sure sucked - until I adjusted them so they were lighting the road instead of the treetops - now they are fine...

 

[bmoeller]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

"The brakes and steering response are much improved over the 2nd gens though. "



Can't comment on either of those from a hands-on perspective - but the 4-wheel discs on my '02 sure stop well - and it's pretty hard to imagine the steering being any BETTER!

I'm comparing my '97 (w/o 4 wheel discs) to a 3G styled 1500 that my boss' grandpa has. HUGE improvement. I think the steering is a little too tight, but it doesn't wander at all. Haven't had the oppertunity to drive a 3G HD Ram yet.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

That's pretty much what I'm talking about SOME of the older 2nd generation trucks had specific tendencies and quirks that were pretty well worked out over the years it was in production - just as the 3rd generation trucks will hopefully get their own corrected - the steering on mine is such that I can remove my hand from the wheel for significant distance without any wander.



But then, one or two trees don't make a forest...



Some, like me, bought the LAST of the 2nd gennies purely to AVOID some of the issues 3rd generation owners are experiencing - not the slightest regret yet!

 

[Wiredawg]

I have Both and Like Both!

I have both and Like both:



1. SOUNDS: I like the sounds of both; they are different and distincitive. I have BD 4" exhaust on my 02 and Aeroturbine on my 03. Both are loud and sound great o the outside.



2. EGTs: I have more problem with EGTs on my 02 than 03, even when completey stock.



3. ROOMINESS: I like the 03 QC setup better than my 02. They are 4 full doors. Only big difference on 3d Gen and Ford/Chevy is you can carry 3 adults in the backs of the two latter as opposed to 2 adults in 3d Gen. Zero comfort for adults in back of 2d Gen QCs.



4. FIT AND FINISH: is better on 3d Gen than 2d Gen. We live down a half mile gravel road and the differnces are night and day between the two.



5. ROAD NOISE: Less road noise on 3d Gen than 2d Gen. Actually, I can't hear road noise that much on my 2d Gen due to engine noise.



6. LOOKS: I like the looks of both: The 3d Gen is a logical evolution of the 2d Gen. I like the brute Peterbuilt look of my 02, but I like the smoother, clean lines of the 3d Gen. BTW, the same evolution has occured on the bif rigs too.



7. JACKS: Both stock tire jacks suck. With the weights of these brutes, we need bottle jacks.



8. STEERING: Hands down 3d Gen is best. I have double steering stabilizer, steering box brace and a Luke's Link awaiting installation on my 02. No problems on my 03.



9. Brakes: My 02 brakes are much better with the hydrolic actuaters I bought a May Madness on my 02. The brakes on the 03 are great.



I like both and wouldnt trade one for the other. In fact, I could kick myself for letter a cherry 1st Gen slip thru my fingers.



So, like everything else, to each his (or her) own. Best just to get one of each.



Happy Trails, Wiredawg

 

[Black Cloud]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

As to styling differences, much is entirely objective in the view of the individual - and while some refer to the 2nd gennies as "dated", I really consider it a classic design, and that even as GM was eventually forced to "upgrade" from the classic styling of the '55, '56 and '57 chevies, they will ALWAYS be classics in the tradition of the '40 Ford and various other styling benchmarks - some stuff might change under pressure for "progress" - but not always an improvement...

When I mean dated I just mean that the body stlyle has been replaced. I still like the looks of my big dually and wouldn't trade it for any other except as quoted earlier... a nice new 3rd gen dually with four real doors.

 

[duaneparks]

At the risk of totally alienating the 3rd Gen folks, I really haven't warmed up to anything on the 3rd Gens EXCEPT for the dash design. And yes, my opinion is PURELY objective and in no way based on hard data. After all, it's really about owning and driving what you want, right? That's what makes life fun and interesting.



I truly like everything about my '01... the noise, the vibration, the harshness, the steering wander (such as it is), the lift pump probs... cause it all comes with driving one of the best trucks available. It's "In Your Face" loud, makes no apologies about bouncing around on bumps, and has more character than any vehicle I've ever owned.



The only thing I'd like better than my 2500 is a 3500. The 2nd Gen QC duallies are the nicest looking "newer" truck on the road, bar none, IMO. I'll take mine in Patriot Blue, please.







Duane

 

[RHARVEY]

I have the pink slip on my 97



No computer,No VP44... .



Oh did I say that I have the pink slip on my 97





Rick

 

[nfox]

2nd gen to 3rd gen

Whats a pink slip?

 

[InThinAir]

Well, this is kind of a Us and Them Post, I am surprised. But I have 1 of each. And love them both.



I would say that the biggest difference between the 2nd and 3rd is exactly what DC needed to do. Trucks/SUVs now comprise of something like 40% of all the auto sales in the US. So it is fit and finish. The new trucks are more polished than the older ones. I would say that I cannot really tell the difference in power between my 2 trucks. The 01 seems more powerful because it sounds more powerful. The 03 seems to surprise me with the power that it has, I get to redline real quick but I can't hear it scream like the 01.



The steering and handling of the stock 03 is far superior to a stock 01.



My overhead is as close with the 03 as 01 so that is not an issue for me. Fuel economy is going to be better on the 03 for me, they are about the same right now and the 03 has 4k miles on it. So I am expecting around 20 from it and I get around 19 on the 01.



The NV5600 is alot smoother on the 03 and no gear clash at all. But the shift pattern knoby spin on both, I would have thought they would have fixed that!!



The braking is actually better on the 01 for me, but my 01 is special, ABS never worked from day 1 and it frickin stops hard!! 4 skid marks on the pavement baby!! Not so good on ice and snow tho.



Love the gaskets on the AAM, my 01 was an open diff, and so if the 03 acts like an open I would be happy, but it still works fine for me.



Can't stand 17" rims, no selection for Duallys especially.



Hated having no AC button on the 01, and letting the thing pick for me, So I never use the bi-level on the 01. Fixed for 03!



The new beds taper up in the back. About 3/4" to give it a swept up look, I had to put 3/4" plywood on the bottom of my slide in to make it fit. That is irritating.



Stock Class 4 hitch on the 03, stock is class 3 on 2nd gens. Class 3 is not enough for anything. I see so many people pulling their TT with the stocker, 5k rating is not much weight.



So as with all vehicles there is good and bad. That is why people have the choice to keep or to trade in for new. In my case the casualty was a 96 1500 gasser with 190K miles. Because my wife tells me that my bag limit is 2 trucks

 

[DPelletier]

OK Gary,

Although I consider this thread somewhat retaliatory, I figure if its OK for you to post on the 3rd gen thread, it's OK for me to post on this one!

I think the second gens have the following better characteristics;

- Your right about the suspension, the 3rd gens are softer which may appeal more to the general populace, but I don't like it. heavier overloads or a heavier main spring pack are in my future

- The rear-end issue. Both of my trucks seem fine and I believe that the AAM is as strong or stronger than the Dana, BUT it is having way too many quality control issues for my liking. I would prefer the Dana for that reason.

- Turbos. I wish the HO's still had the HX 35's. Seems they have more potential than the HY's. I know that they needed to go to the HY for emmissions reasons (more boost at lower RPM's) , but I still would rather have an HX.



I'm not going to comment on the styling as it is purely subjective. I too thought the 3rd gen look was a little bold when it first came out, but now I'm used to it and the 2nd gen just looks a little dated to me. There is no right or wrong answer here. I like mine and you like yours. Sometimes the styling can be overly offensive (read Aztecs, Avalanche, new chev trucks, Citroens, Pacers, etc. ), but this isn't the case here, both designs are attractive.



I infer from some of your comments that you believe that the 2002 and 2003 truck brakes are similar. My 2001. 5 had four wheel disks too and while it was better than any Dodge pickup brakes to come before it, the 3rd gen brakes are better. period.

The steering is the same situation. I had the box replaced in my 2001. 5 and it worked much better than it had previously, but nowhere near as nice as the 3rd gens in the steering department. My wife is actually comfortable driving the new truck with the camper on it. You could argue that there was still something amiss with my 2001. 5's steering, but I doubt that was the case. Just the way it's designed.



Not sure what you mean about the engine power and low-end comment. My '03 still makes huge power right off idle. Its one of the strong points of the Cummins engines. If its the higher RPM that you're concerned with, you should be arguing for 12valves, because RPM wise the 24valves are much closer to the HPCR engines than they are to the 12v's.



NFox,

Just to clarify, there is no 3rd gen Crew Cab. Its a quad cab and it is WAY superior to a 2nd gen quad cab. I can understand this argument from someone driving a Ford or GM CC, but I'm not going to take it from a second genner!



Hopefully by providing an honest comparison between the two trucks by someone who has owned both my comments are taken for the information they contain and I'm not accused of "making stuff up" to make me feel better about spending a bunch of $'s. Trust me, I don't have that kind of psychological need.



Try to remember that we're all on the same team here. We all have nice trucks and deserve to be very proud of them. As I've said many times before, although I'm very happy with my 3rd gen truck, I'd buy a nice 2nd gen in a heartbeat before I'd consider a Ford or GM Truck.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[rashwor]

1) EGT's are easier to control... 3rd gens are hot stock. No point making the power if you can't use it!

2) No cat (meow).

3) Good availability of aftermarket repair parts.

4) Comfort of front seats / front seatbelts.

5) Slightly less expensive tire sizes and good choice of tires readily available.

6) Paid for.