What is Bush Thinking on the Amnesty Issue

[hammersley]

I've had it - this is above and beyond. This is what Bill Oreilly has to say:



O'Reilly Factor Insider Briefing (1/07/04)

TALKING POINTS: AMNESTY INSANITY

President Bush is proposing amnesty for millions of illegals. (Here's a transcript of the President's speech on the issue today. )



The President wants Congress to pass a law, giving about 10 million illegal immigrants the right to work and live in this country.



Mr. Bush says it's not amnesty, but it is.



Remember, this is a "No Spin Zone. "



Key parts of the President's plan:

The feds would match illegal workers with companies that need them.



The feds would background check the illegals who sign up for the program.



Once an illegal (immigrant) gets a job, he or she would get a guest worker card, allowing them to stay in the USA for three years.



They could then move their families here if they could demonstrate financial stability.



They could also apply for citizenship.

So this program is basically an amnesty situation, if you play by the rules, which you've already broken by coming here illegally in the first place.



But the program is all carrot cake - and no stick.



Those who have broken the law obviously get a break, but little will be done to stop future illegal aliens. This is the huge flaw.



If Mr. Bush would order the states to use the National Guard to help the border patrol, I'd support the President's plan.



America does need foreign labor and we cannot deport 10 million people. But this amnesty will just encourage millions of other people all over the world to come here illegally.



Over the next 10 years, we could see 25 million more illegal aliens. I mean, who's going to stop them?



Remember, the Reagan amnesty in '86 led to the current chaos. Once Mr. Reagan showed the world that you could become an American citizen by breaking the law, millions more broke it.



The same will happen this time, as smuggling rings will be set up all over the world to shuttle people over here, as the borders remain porous.



America will also have to absorb an astounding amount of expense, according to analysis done by The San Diego Union Tribune:

Illegal immigrants cost the taxpayers $20 billion every year.



34 percent of legal Mexican immigrants are on welfare right now.



25 percent of illegals are as well.



This number will rise with the amnesty.



Most illegals are willing to work hard, but as the numbers prove, millions are not.



The big winner here is Mexico.



(Mexico's) President Fox must be dancing around the clock. He gets rid of millions of poor people, gets millions of dollars sent back to Mexico, and does absolutely nothing in return. If Bush and Fox worked together to stop the border chaos, it would be stopped. But they don't.



President Bush is calculating that his supporters will vote for him, even if they don't like the amnesty, especially if Dean is his opponent. But the question is, will the amnesty help America?



The answer is no, not if the borders remain open and millions more pour in here illegally, as they will. If that happens, America will become a far different place 10 years from now than it is today. And that's The Memo

 

[Mike Ellis]

I guess I will be voting libertarian next time around. I am so hot about the amnesty BS that I am still seeing red



The Federal government has no Constitutional allocation of power for "matching illegal workers with companies that need them". How about protecting and defending our borders like they are supposed to?



Once again we see that there are legions of Americans willing to sell their fellow citizens out for a few miserable bucks.

 

[Sled Puller]

I guess my question is:



Why do the Democrats not like the idea?

 

[RustyJC]

Playing to the Mexican/American voting bloc in swing states like California, I guess. From the reports I'm hearing, however, it may backfire as the Mexican/Americans who are in the USA legally don't seem to want the illegals to get amnesty - they'd be competing for the same jobs.



Unfortunately, politicians (whatever the flavor) tend to do what they think will get them elected/re-elected or tighten their grip on power.



Rusty

 

[Jengle]

It's a *)(*&(*^&^ sad state of affairs when instead of voting for the best guy for the job, we are forced to decide between the lesser of the evils. &((*^&^%%$%!!!!! When a politicians lips are moving... ... you know the rest.

 

[hmartin]

This is B. S. !!! If we do this for Mexico whos next North Koreans or even worse Iraqis! Bottom line is what jobs will be left here for our kids when you have an influx of illegals here every year willing to work for whatever low scale pay, sending it back home to their families so they can move their freeloadin ass up here to get on welfare. Looks to me like the cycle will never end. The cycle continues today for people not willing enough to try and help better themselves. Another group that will benefit will be they always open armed big employer (THE RICH!!!), who will see this as an opportunity to choke down the American worker. Last problem I can see with this at the moment is if it becomes this easy to slither your way up the pipeline into OUR COUNTRY, then what good is HOMELAND DEFENSE! Sounds like a bad policy to me!

 

[hammersley]

You know I like a lot of things Bush has done BUT that said - This is a Deal; Breaker for me - PERIOD - End of Story! He might as well have Barney Frank or Hillary as his running mate - heck there's not much difference anymore... ... ... . PO'd in Washington - The Real Washington - The State!

 

[kiwi bird]

"demonstate financial ability" = pay taxes. Most illegals don't.

 

[klenger]

Part of the amnesty issue is always locking down the borders at the same time. After living in AZ for about 1 1/2 years now, I can tell you it ain't never gona happen. There are lots and lots of nothing but miles and miles of unprotected border between us and them. Maybe we should have bought the Berlin wall when we had the chance.

 

[hammersley]

We can have a new Initiative to go to the Moon & Mars

BUT WE CAN'T PROTECT OUR BORDERS!!!!!!!!!!! This is simply absurd! They're playing us for fools! Well the old saying applies here my friend - "Fool me once shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me!"

 

[Steve M]

Government matching jobs to people? That's communism. Giving jobs to illegal aliens. That's even worse.

 

[smartineau]

From jengle:



we are forced to decide between the lesser of the evils. &((*^&^%%$%!!!!! When a politicians lips are moving... ... you know the rest. [/B][/QUOTE]







remember people the lessor of two evils is still evil. Bush is just trying to get re-elected and it may cost a few votes along the way. Most conservative folks will vote Bush because they really hate the other guys views. Most liberal will vote democrat because they hate Bushs' ideas. A few people stuck in the middle or willing to vote for the third party and split the vote will decie the next election.

 

[BigMike]

So what's the big deal?? These illegal immigrants are only doing the jobs that Americans won't do. How many of your kids work as farm laborers? I couldn't even get mine to pick strawberries for two weeks. I live in an agricultural area, and I guarantee you, farmers here would go under were it not for the illegals who are desperate for jobs. I don't like it, but that's the way it is everywhere!!

 

[Rogue Ram]

A huge number of these illegals are here to sponge folks, and not work at all. Many states allow them medical care, college tuition breaks, etc etc. A number of them are slinging dope and take the attitude "so what if I get caught, jail is warm in winter, cool in summer, don't have to work, and I get fed 3 times a day".



Yes some are hard workin' folks, no doubt. My experience is the legal Mexicans despise the illegals, but many will vote to take care of their own every time.



I too feel betrayed. I thought W was the man.



RR

 

[Mike Ellis]

Interesting note about the strawberries and farm workers, I remember Illflem posted way back when about the same situation with the apple orchards. However, I am not convinced that they are jobs that Americans can't or won't do, most likely they are jobs that Americans can't AFFORD to do at the wages the farmers can afford to pay and be competitive.



When I was in high school, I made good money hauling hay. I don't know if kids can still do it the old way, the big round bales remove the need for stacking in the barn etc. My other job was roofing, and I made pretty darned good money swinging that roofing hatchet. But down here in Texas, it appears that the construction trade jobs like that are completely dominated by illegals now, wonder if I was still in high school today if I could get that same roofing job? Making $7. 00 an hour working like a dog in the sun in 1977 was pretty good pay, I expect that in 2004 my options would be minimum wage at Burger King or the auto parts store. I never had any complaints about me not being able to do the roofing job either, I was working for my high school football coach and at the end of the summer we would go straight into 2-a-days, he wasn't very bashful about expressing his dissatisfaction



IMHO the illegal alien problem is entirely due to the small American businessman who is willing to scam the system to save a few bucks on taxes. Got a tight margin on that house being built? Drive down to I-30 in Ft. Worth, pick up a truckload of Mexicans to work by the day, no payroll taxes, no overhead, don't even have to pay them the same wages you do the Americans. The businessman makes a few exta bucks, and the rest of us take the shaft having to carry the extra load for their medical care at county hospitals, no auto insurance, increased crime, having to pay for bi-lingual instruction in school, etc etc etc freakin' etc.



It ain't the illegals who are causing the problem, it is the guys willing to screw over their fellow citizens to make a few bucks.

 

[DKayser]

Who`s on first?

It`s a problem. The illegals are looking for work , the business folks are lookin to save a few bucks,the do-gooders are lookin for someone to help, the politicians are lookin for anybody who will vote for them , all at my cost. If my taxes wer ONLY what I see on my check I`d be happy. Most of us are in the middle,and as far as the govt tit is concerned, that is not the place to be. People at the top can write everything off. People at the bottom Get all the freebies and handouts. I`m in the middle, and all I get from this party is the check! I`m tired of it all, but what options do working folks have. I hope people remember all this horse**** when the polls open. DK.

 

[dpuckett]

WIth the medivcare expansion, campaign finance "reform" and now this. Good FReaking Gawd!!! True, most Mexicans will gladly do lots of stuff Americens wont do, but is it too much to ask the bassterds to come here legally? If Bush was that concerned about the farm/ low skill labor economy, he should have just raised the limit on how many people can come in per year. This is just a scam to avoid having to crack down and offend our neighbors to the south. I think there should be NO medicare, NO WELFARE, NO public education for their non-English speaking rugrats, NO tuition breaks, etc, etc, for them. THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS, they shouldnt have the right to take advantage of our taxpayer funded system. If they starve out in the cold, so be it; they'd meet the same fate in Mexico, Cuba, Nicuragua, etc. Dig a hold and cover them up. Preferrably in my horse pasture, so the grass will grow thicker. This all got its start with the tuochy feely politically correct weiney crowd, and "we cant hurt anyone's feelings" BS. Had someone way back when (long before MY time) stood up to the kooks, we might still be a strong country. I think we are going to see bad things to come, make 9/11 look like a church bus crash, if we and our "leaders" dont shape up and straighten things out. Next, he'll change his mind and give us over the the Useless Nations.



As much as I hate to admit it- and I think he did a good job up till Thanksgiving- Bush just lost my vote. Only problem is, htere is no alternative. Guess we'll have to pick the lesser of the two evils. We all need to stock up on K-Y and get ready to do a lot of drawer droppin and toe touches. He'll go after our guns, next. But he can pry it from my cold dead hands, and I'll take as many of the gun snatching Nazis as I can with me.



Daniel

 

[Elite1]

Hey let's face the facts, there are millions of illegals here because our govt. (since day one) has chosen not to protect our borders. It just isn't a priority, I guess. (but that is sort of another subject. ) Since we have all of these low wage illeagles working under the table in most instances, many in the agriculture, construction, restraunt/hotel, and factory type work. Why not document them and let them pay taxes? It makes sense to me!

 

[Wayno]

Well BigMike you might have a problem finding farm workers up there but down in in the Houston area the farm thing is just about gone . So the illegals here are doing many things . A lot are working for contractors doing road construction , home building ,hanging off the back of garbage trucks , you cant find a auto body shop around here with out them . You wont see any behind a desk . And you are right Mike Ellis about the scam , I have see it first hand at a place I use to work at . You can get the illegals for low pay . But you never know it might be your job next they will do and do it for less money . Now who you gonna blame for this . Well from what I have seen the White Race business people ---- Who cares about the future , line your pocket with dinero today !!!! Oh and one last thing --- Welcome to America , now speak English !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DKayser]

$=Vote

Well folks, if we take this laying down, it`s our fault. I suggest we all e-mail our legislators, state & federal, & let them know what we think/want. In most local papers they have links to your reps. Use them, & remind them they work for you. They tend to forget this. DK.