Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) What Plate to Buy?

[Cummins4Life]

Truck is a 94. I'm thinking about buying a plate tomorrow and need to decide between a #11, #10 or a #6. 10's seem to be popular but I figured this little 160 pump may need a bigger plate for the same effect. I dont tow much, live at 5000' and have the stock wh1c turbo with the wastegate plugged. The transmission is being rebuilt right now by RGP trannies and should be good for 450hp. Any suggestions?

 

[Howard Durand]

Your truck appears to be about the same as mine.

I started my road to upgrades with a Banks power pak and, actually, it has been pretty successful. As near as I can tell, by comparison with pictures, I would guess that the Banks plate is very close to a #6.

It gave decent towing power all the way up through full throttle but the egt could climb if I didn't keep the rpm up. About the most boost I saw with it was around 20#.



Late last year I installed a TST #5. It produces fantastic response and spins up my little WH1C turbo very quickly. It can easily peg my 30# boost gauge.

The problem with it is, when towing, the egt climbs so fast it is scary. I really had to watch it. It would run up past 1300* real quick if I was in the wrong gear for what I was doing.



Yesterday I put in a TST #10 and tried it out today. Unloaded, It comes off the line real strong and will run up to about 70 then begins to de-fuel. If I keep my foot in it it will climb to about 85 and that is pretty much it.

After the runs with the truck empty, I hooked onto our 7000# trailer and took it for about 100 miles round trip which took it up a 11 mile long 5 0r 6% grade as well as a shorter grade of about the same pitch.

It pulls strong and steady from the standstill up to about 70 mph on flat ground then begins to lose speed as it starts up the hills. With OD locked out, it would climb the hill quite well at about 60 mph with the TC locked up.

The odd part is that it would only be about 2/3 throttle and any throttle advance from that point produced no more gain. The beauty of it is that egt would max out at about 1200* at the same time as max speed and would not increase with any increase of the throttle which would indicate that the plate has caused the governor to completely de-fuel at that point.



Just for reference, all three of the plates that I have installed have been set at the stock location. .

 

[BPonci]

Get a #10 plate and set your gov arm per Piers website. The #10 plate is the best all around plate there is.

 

[krs]

"Get a #10 plate and set your gov arm per Piers website"



No need to worry the governor arm with a #10 plate.

 

[Jerred]

Yesterday I put in a TST #10 and tried it out today. Unloaded, It comes off the line real strong and will run up to about 70 then begins to de-fuel. [/QUOTE]



The issue with defueling is the governor, the plate has a little to do with it as well, but mostly your governor springs. A set of 3k springs will do you a whole lot of good. I have the 4k springs with many other mods and I love them. The fuel pump will not defuel unless my right foot decides it should!! It will rev to 4k no problem, I just usually never need more than 3200 and that's only when I'm being stupid and seeing how fast I can go before my pyro pegs. With a load uphill, 2800-3000 seems to be sufficient for maximizing the gears and accelerating to a good crusing speed.



Definitely #10, that's my favorite. I've tried a half dozen different ones and I like it the best for all around driving manners and power. It drives great around town in any position stock or pushed forward and has plenty of top end power.

 

[Howard Durand]

I may have used the wrong definition of my lack of response after 70mph but there is no other way I can put it except I had reached the end of the fueling curve and no more was being fed to the engine. My right foot was saying gimme some more but it wasn't happening. If there had been more fuel I would have either gained speed or, if there was too much load, the egt would have climbed but it didn't.

Today I moved the plate forward about 0. 030" and, unloaded, I received better overall response than yesterday. No towing test as yet but I believe it will be improved.



One thing I learned about the #5 plate is that It provided ample fuel as far as I wanted to push it but if the load and the grade became an obstacle, the egt went way over what is acceptable.

That is why I am trying the #10 and it looks like it is going to be a good choice.



By the way, I do have the 3K GSK.

 

[Cummins4Life]

Thanks guys. The #10 is looking like the ticket however I dug around today and found a #8 I can get too. Would it be a good balance between the 10 and 6 or too much fuel for 5000' and towing 5000lbs. My stock plate is full forward now and my star wheel is turned toward the engine about 25 clicks. No GSK and no plans for any injectors for a while. Makes max 27psi boost and is decent power but was just looking for a bit more.

 

[Bob4x4]

I doubt you will be happy with the 8. not enough bottom end without injectors. The top end is not that great either,unless mild is your choice.



Bob

 

[Howard Durand]

I agree with Bob, the #10 should do anything you want from mild to wild. It is the best I have had yet just because of the way it responds on takeoff. Bottom end power is what you need to get a trailer or any load moving.



Piers has his plates on sale this month.



I bought mine the last week of August. :{

 

[hsmith]

How hard is it to control smoke unloaded with the #10? With the 11, smoke can be problem at lower rpm's with my setup.

 

[Jerred]

One thing I learned about the #5 plate is that It provided ample fuel as far as I wanted to push it but if the load and the grade became an obstacle, the egt went way over what is acceptable.

That is why I am trying the #10 and it looks like it is going to be a good choice.



By the way, I do have the 3K GSK.

Sorry, failed to notice the GSK in your signature! If the pump is defueling and you're still trying to put more throttle in, the rising temps is not a surprise. You need to burn fuel to make exhaust gas to continue to spool the turbo and make boost air which controls temps. Sounds like you may want to try a 4k GSK. Those springs will rev the engine close to its limit, but you can regulate that with your foot. It just may give you that little extra rpm while you're towing to make the hills a little more EGT friendly.



I'm no expert, but in my experience, the #10 will give you better driving manners than the #5 around town, before you hit the top of the fueling curve. I switched from the Banks Ottomind (similar to a #8) to the #10 and the driving around town improved but I don't feel like it's any less agressive at WOT. As far as top end fuel, all the plates have a flat profile at the top end so the fueling should be the same at WOT and high RPM with the #5 and #10 if they're installed in the same location in the pump. To get more fuel at the top end, you need only to move the plate forward. You'll love the #10, it's a great all around plate and you won't sacrifice the top end fuel going from the #5. Anybody disagree with that?

 

[Howard Durand]

Jarred,



Thanks for the reply and added info. I am learning as I go here. When I installed the Banks plates, I put them in at the stock position and did nothing to adjust the governor arm.

The #5 was also put in at stock position and I checked the governor arm and it touched the plate just below the tip of the nose.

Later, I moved the governor arm up to touch just above the nose and the response was better.

I installed the #10 at stock position but moved the governor arm down to just touch the bottom tip of the plate, which is acutally the bottom of the plate. As I move the throttle forward, the arm touches the tip then rides the curve upward.

When I had the plate out of the pump, I pulled the throttle and watched the governor arm. It moves forward then rises up a certain amount and stops.



My question is. What would happen if the arm was adjusted upward a little so it would follow the plate further up the profile.

I have read some posts that say when you install the #10, you don't have to adjust the governor arm.

If I had left it alone when I removed the #5, the arm would have moved forward unobstructed and hit the #10 plate just about in the center of the first curve and then it would move back a little as it followed the plate upward.





I did move the plate forward about 0. 030" and am now getting higher up in the rpm range and of course more highway speed.

 

[Jerred]

My question is. What would happen if the arm was adjusted upward a little so it would follow the plate further up the profile.

I have read some posts that say when you install the #10, you don't have to adjust the governor arm.

If I had left it alone when I removed the #5, the arm would have moved forward unobstructed and hit the #10 plate just about in the center of the first curve and then it would move back a little as it followed the plate upward.

I asked the same thing of a guy with almost the same setup as me who was getting almost 90hp more on the dyno. He said on a post that his buddy "adjusted the arm for max power. " I asked him what he meant by that since I'd always adjusted the lever to hit the profile at the bottom of the plate on whatever plate I had in at the time. I haven't heard back from him (must be on vacation) but I expect a PM soon. I was just wondering if he knew something I didn't. Turns out I'm losing an as of yet undetermined amount of top end power due to a socket-like tool that was apparently dropped between my aftercooler and the radiator by a previous owner that has vibrated a hole in the aftercooler of an as of yet unknown size. So, tomorrow I get to tear apart my front end to remove and repair the aftercooler, what fun!! Bombers out there: check your boost system for leaks!! There's a detailed instruction in one the latest TDR's for a home made pressure tester. You could find a culprit for power loss that you never knew existed!! But I digress...



I still think that once you clear all the profile on the plate (most of it is on the lower half) and the lever is up on the flat part high on the plate, you're at the same fuel demand all the way to the top. As rpm increases and the lever rides higher on the plate, it will be at the same fuel schedule (i. e. same amount of fuel requested by the throttle arm) since the lever is no longer moving fore and aft, just up and down (fuel demand increases or decreases with fore and aft movement of the throttle arm, not up and down, that's just rpm increase/decrease). By adjusting the arm up a little bit, I would THINK that all you're doing is getting to the higher part of the plate at a lower RPM and thus clearing the profile of the plate (which actually makes the throttle lever travel aft, taking away fuel at certain RPM's) earlier and getting to max fuel quicker. And again, max fuel is adjusted by moving the plate fore and aft.



I think there's a chance of some blind leading the blind here, Howard!! Anybody else care to take a wack at this reasoning?!?! I would love to be corrected and learn something if I'm off on this explaination, who's with me?

 

[Bob4x4]

By adjusting the governor lever you are SHAPING your power band,along with the profile of the plate. The #10 plate defuels more at Higher rpm than the #5.

Less fuel at high rpm may not mean less power,that you have enough air at high rpm is very important.



Bob

 

[RottenRon]

I put in a #10 plate and 3k GSK at the beginning of the summer. I towed my 10K lb 5th wheel about 7k miles this summer and was very happy with the power. I get 32 psi boost and my EGT tops out at 1250 (plate is in the stock position). I also have the 160 pump. I'd highly recommend the #10 plate! The only problem I'm having is this: I was amazed at the power when I went for my first test drive but now that the novelty has worn off, I'm starting to think about what I need to do to get more power!

 

[Howard Durand]

Bob, I like what you said. It makes sense.



RottenRon, there is a law written somewhere that compels you to satisfy your need for "more power". You have no choice.



Lest we forget, this thread was started by Cummins4Life wanting to know what plate to buy. I hope all of this has been of some help.

It has definitely helped me.

I thank you all.



Howard

 

[Jerred]

Welcome to the club, we have a good support group here for the endless search of power!

 

[Cummins4Life]

I'm just setting back trying to absorb all the info I can. I went with the #10 and it should be here tomorrow

 

[Bob4x4]

hsmith,

The 10 will smoke more than the 11 at low end,it is a lot more aggressive coming on.



Bob

 

[Jerred]

Cummins4life,



Good choice, #10 will get you started and you'll be happy with it for all but the more extreme power needs. Timing will help the smoke a little (try setting to about 15. 5 - 16degBTDC), there's instructions on the web somewhere, maybe someone can point you in the right directions. If you have a shop manual (the big one, not Haynes, although, I think it too has some instructions, just not as extensive), all the info you need is in there. You can get the tools from Snap-On for about $250 vs. the Cummins tools which are over twice that. The tool kit has served me well. I don't get much smoke unless I REALLY lay into it (dyno, drags, etc) going down the road with 370 injectors, the #10 plate slid almost all the way forward, 191 delivery valves and Piers 35 hybird turbo.



Howard,



I found out the reason I am not dynoing like I thought I should (see back a few comments on this post) and it had nothing to do with the governor lever adjustment! I found a socket and extension jammed in the back of my intercooler betweent the cooler and the "A" bracket that helps support the cross member. It made about a 3/16" hole!!! :--) Apparently the previous owner did not practice good tool control. Maybe I'll send it back to him with the bill for my time PULLING THE ENTIRE FRONT END APPART!! It's fixed, we'll see how she runs on the dyno two weeks from now!