What specs can be adjusted on a 4x4 front-end???

[TRodney]

My alignment shop indicated that some specifications can not be adjusted on the solid front axle of the 4x4 dodge. Is Brent or someone else out there that can give some information about this topic?



Any help from an alignment specialist will be appreciated.



Thanks,

Tim

 

[Joe G.]

Tim,



There was a post some time ago (couple of years I think) about alignment of 4X4 Rams. I clipped the info just in case I ever needed it. The following is from that post:



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Alignment programs (and service manuals I believe), give a wide acceptable range for front caster on the 4x4 Rams. I believe the range is 2 degrees to 5 degrees (if that's not correct, it's pretty close). The problem occurs when the alignment tech (independent or dealer) tells you that the measurements "checked out fine", just because they were in this broad range of acceptance.



Caster readings that fall on either end of the scale are subject to caster shimmy, even though they are "acceptable". I had to align some 30 trucks and attend a 9 hour "Dodge Ram Chassis Dynamics Diagnostics" training session (fancy name, ehh?), before finding out that 3 degrees to 4 degrees is the optimal caster setting for 4x4 Rams that eliminates caster shimmy.



Below I will post what specifications I set Ram trucks to. First I want to give a little more info on correct Ram alignments so you can see if you had a job well done.



The eccentrics on the lower control arms ARE NOT for individual wheel caster adjustments (even though our alignment machine says they are). The eccentric sleeves in the upper ball joints are for adjusting individual camber and total cross caster (difference in caster between two front wheels). This is why replacement eccentrics are positionable in eight different ways.



Once camber and cross caster are attained with the eccentrics, the lower control arm eccentrics are then used to swing the caster readings into specifications. The two eccentrics must be swung in the SAME direction in EQUAL amounts. If they are not, it will create a setback condition (one front wheel further forward than the other).



FYI - Comparing between the two front wheels, caster will cause a pull to the smaller value and camber will cause a pull to the larger value. A truck set up with caster pulling in one direction and camber pulling in the other direction, can lead to a wandering truck; even though it is "in specifications"!!!!!!



If the eccentrics on the lower control arms of your truck are not pointing the same direction, the alignment was done incorrectly and the axle was "twisted" or "forced" into position to attain the acceptable values (seen them from the factory this way, go figure).



A correct alignment will set the truck up with a slight negative cross caster (truck has slight pull to left) to compensate for right hand road crown. Camber will be equal side to side slightly on the negative side. This will help maintain acceptable camber when hauling heavy loads, as the truck tends to lift in the front when towing. Camber will then fall slightly positive when towing.



Just because the alignment shop says "it's in specifications", that does not mean it is set up for proper performance and handling!!!!!!!!!



Specifications (my personal settings for every Ram I align): all specs below are in degrees.





Left Wheel Right Wheel

-------------- ----------------

Caster 3. 2 3. 5

Cross Caster -. 3



Camber -. 10 -. 10

Cross Camber 0. 0



Toe - standard specs, (maybe a little out if you tow a lot, they will pull in as the front end lifts up).



Brent

ASE Certified

Gold Certified Chrysler tech

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[TRodney]

What can be adjusted??

I gave the above numbers to the alignment guy and he said that they can't all be adjusted. He said my truck looks good with the following numbers:

camber = 0. 0, caster = +2. 0.



Are these numbers good??? I don't know. If anyone has any information, I would appreciate it.



Thanks,

Tim

 

[Joe G.]

Did the alignment read the stuff about the eccentric sleeves in the upper ball joints and replacement eccentrics? Or did he just brush you off? Maybe you need to talk to some other alignment guy.

 

[RCrawford]

I might be wrong about this but I don't think the camber settings will change on a 4x4 solid front axle between loaded and empty will they? I used to be the frontend man at a local tire shop too many years ago. Been too many years and too many changes in frontend dynamics. I don't want to step on any toes here, so don't take me in the wrong way, just wandering. Thanks, RC.

 

[Gordon Maney]

adjustable ball joints

My 2001 truck had a pull to the right. I provided the specs in this old forum post, which, coincidentally, DC also provided when the dealer questioned them.



The camber was off, the 2001 truck does not have adjustable ball joints, so they had to be ordered from an automotive vendor, as DC does not offer them. Isn't that fascinating?



The truck is better than it was, but still drifts down the slope of the road crown, meaning right of the center line it drifts right, and left of the center line it drifts left. It is not fixed.



This is not an issue of me not knowing what acceptable steering characteristics might be, as I have worked as a mechanic in automobile and truck dealerships, and have done alignment work in those dealerships.



The folks at the dealership are good people. I think I am disappointed in the Ram front end. My 1999 V10 wandered, but did NOT pull, and I was told that is "the way they are. " I did't buy that idea, either. My current truck and the V10 truck were identical, long bed, long cab, manual transmission trucks. They are both said to be, "OK," but they were different from one another.



My question is, how many "OK's" do we have in th world?

 

[mediccummin]

Gordon Maney

What did it take to get your dealer to do the work with the aftermarket adjustable ball joints, My dealer is trying to get it authorized to have this done. Not sure if anyone noticed but I've been *****ing about this for awhile, fighting with the dealer to fix my truck right. Now that I found the parts they say they have been waiting for DC to say it is ok to do the work. I have a severe pull to the right after 4 alignments and 1- 4 wheel alignments for dog tracking. It sounds like alot of people are popping up lately with there front end problems on TDR. You think they would put adjustable joints to begin with. Well any way enough from me.

 

[Gordon Maney]

DC authorization of adjustable ball joints

As far as I know it was not an issue. The parts were needed to correct an axle assembly that has no possibility of adjusting camber, and so they approved it. I suppose it might be cheaper than trying another axle assembly.



Apparently previous years had adjustable joints available from Chrysler. Someone else may comment on that point.

 

[Kyle]

The standard answer is "If you have a straight axle, all you can adjust is toe-in. " If that's the answer you get, look for another shop.



I called 4 4x4 shops and asked who they recommend. 3 of them recommended the same place so I took mine down there after replacing the track bar. The guy at the counter said "If you have a straight axle, all you can adjust is toe-in. " I went out back and talked to the mechanic recommended by the 4x4 shops and he said, "Sure you can adjust all those settings. I might have to order a different eccentric if I don't have one in stock, but don't worry, I'll get the settings you want. "



I guess those eccentrics are some sort of trade secret or something (even the trade doesn't know about them). Maybe they just don't want to go to the extra trouble.



Anyway, mine turned out great. The mech walked me back to the machine and showed me the settings before he took it off the rack.



I highly recommend Network Alignment in Phoenix.



The camber is very touchy. While mine was on the rach, you could change the camber reading by just pushing on the bumper. Apparently it's not as important as caster for the pulling condition.