Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) What to do

[Not Guilty]

OK... about 10 days ago my 99 3/4 ton 4wd Dodge Cummins lost its transmission when I had 5 horses in the trailer some distance from the house.

Just got the lowdown. Not only does it need another transmission, it also needs another clutch. Managed to tear up my fairly new South Bend clutch.

Truck has 160000 miles on it. Cash shortage is a real issue here.

Do I try to put in a 5 sp or 6 sp? Was going to replace the 5 sp until I found out about needing a heavier duty clutch anyway.

Is it worth the extra money to go to a 6 speed? Oh yeah, it has bigger than stock injectors so it has a bit more power than off the shelf.

Thinking about calling the finance company to let them know they can have it back!!!!!

Thanks,

Karen

 

[fj40charles]

Karen,



Welcome to the TDR. I'm sorry to hear about your problem. I would contact Peter at Southbend. I'm sure he'll take good care of you since the clutch failed. If you're worried about cost, I think a 5 speed with the fully splined shaft would still be cheaper than a NV5600 conversion.



Charles

 

[Bob Wagner]

I agree with Charles

Karen, Call and talk to peter 1 800 988 4345

 

[Not Guilty]

Did that

Thanks for the suggestions. I have talked to Peter and shipped him the damaged clutch. He is the one who told me I need to replace this clutch with a bigger one. I pull horses lots of miles which is apparently rough on equipment. Surely it is not the driver!!!. He did offer me a good deal on the larger clutch. Since it can handle a 6 speed, I thought I should ask those who know.

Probably should stick with 5 speed due to teh cost.

Karen

 

[fj40charles]

Just curious what clutch you ordered. Did you get the 13" 1. 25" input shaft clutch? This is supposed to have a much stronger center section. I have the 13" version of the ConOFE and I really like it.

 

[Hohn]

Karen...

My wife's name is Karen...



Anyway. If you could possibly swing it, I think that the NV5600 Upgrade would be worth your while in the long run. The type of usage you are subjecting your truck to is out of the league of the 4500.



The 5600 is MUCH beefier overall. That's the reason to get it-- not having one more gear. With a South Bend 13. 5" clutch, it will be plenty stout and hold up best in the long run.



It might not be that much more expensive. I mean, you have to get a new clutch anyway. So that's the same. You have to pay to get a transmission removed and replaced either way, so that's the same.



Really, the only cost difference is the cost of the 5600 over the 4500. While it IS a substantial difference, you may be getting more overall for your money by going with the 5600.



If you can't swing it, you can't swing-- no big deal. Just run the 4500 until it pukes.





BTW-- I would highly recommend Redline MTL manual tranmission lube. It smoothes the shifting out, and does a GREAT job of protecting gears and synchros.



HOHN

 

[Not Guilty]

Type of Clutch

Clutch is MU 00090 Con O. Too small apparently. Peter said the jerking that results from livestock movement is what damages the clutch.

HOHN: Thanks for the NV 5600 suggestion, I planned to stick with the NV 4500 until I found I needed a new clutch. You're right about the only expense difference is the transmission itself. I really don't want to try to save money only to have to redo this in a few months.

I have some real hesitation about pouring so much money into it. What if something else breaks?

The Chevy dealer conveniently called me yesterday to tell me about a dually gasser they have in stock. Talk about timing!!!! I think I'll check it out.

Karen

 

[rashwor]

Karen,

since the transmission blew and needs to be replaced, you might want to contact Blumenthal's in OK. I think they can supply everything you need to go from a 5 sp to a 6 sp. I also think they can hook you up with a fully splined mainshaft 5 speed if that is more the cost you can afford. I have no idea on the cost of any of this, but if / when my 5sp pukes, I will consult with them on a 6 sp. A 6 sp is what I wanted when I originally bought my truck, but production was limited in 99 and I was unable to find one and could not wait (another story).



Here is Blumenthal's info and website:



Address:



504 S. W. 4th

Oklahoma City, OK 73109

(405) 236-4800 or (888) 236-4800

(405) 552-8687 FAX



web address:



www.blumenthalmfg.com/



Good luck and let us know how it comes out. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

 

[fj40charles]

I would run away from the chevy gasser. You'll really be hating life when you fill up and the lack of power. I really don't think you can ever go from towing with Cummins or PSD to a gasser because you're giving up soooo much torque.

 

[Hohn]

Re: Type of Clutch

Originally posted by NotGuilty

Clutch is MU 00090 Con O. Too small apparently. Peter said the jerking that results from livestock movement is what damages the clutch.

HOHN: Thanks for the NV 5600 suggestion, I planned to stick with the NV 4500 until I found I needed a new clutch. You're right about the only expense difference is the transmission itself. I really don't want to try to save money only to have to redo this in a few months.

I have some real hesitation about pouring so much money into it. What if something else breaks?

The Chevy dealer conveniently called me yesterday to tell me about a dually gasser they have in stock. Talk about timing!!!! I think I'll check it out.

Karen

GO ahead and check it out. But, as you say, trying to save short term money only to spend more in the long run is not wise. Trading off to the Chev might be a little cheaper in the short term. But really, the only thing that's CLOSE to a reasonable substitute for you (in a Chevy truck) is a Duramax/Allison combo. I think they may even offer the NV5600 in a Chev, which might be a better route. BUT, ANY Duramax is going to be WAY $$$.



Which brings you back to fixing the Dodge, and why I recommended the 6 speed. The 6-speed conversion is pricey, true, but you might also want to try converting to a full DTT or ATS automatic setup. They are the only automatics that would survive in front of the horses.



If you think that horses are hard on a stick shift clutch, what do you think it does to a stock torque converter clutch? Right-- shreds it. You have to keep this in perspective. Price out a 4500 with a fully splined mainshaft, and a stouter clutch (SBC Con FEW), and THEN see how much sheaper the 4500 is over the 5600 conversion.



no matter what you decide, we'll still let you feel the love, even if you should (GASP!) buy a Chevy.





Hohn

 

[Not Guilty]

COSTS

Blumenthals - 5 spd $1,295 6 spd $2,050 Clutch $900



South Bend Clutch $999



Enterprise Engine 5 spd $1,750 clutch $1,541



Suggestions? Thanks,

Karen

 

[rashwor]

Looks to me like...

the cheapest way out here is the Blumenthals 5 sp and Peter's better SBC (depending on the cost of the better SBC). This keeps you in the Cummins, which you would miss greatly if you were to choose the Chevy. If you can stomach the money and you tow alot the 6 sp from Blumenthals would probably be the best. I have to say though, the 6 sp amounts to a bunch of money and if I did not tow alot, I probably would not go with the 6 sp. I think the 6 sp is worth it, I just don't think I could part with the money.



Sorry I couldn't help.

 

[Not Guilty]

I Give!!!!!

OK I give ya'll.

When my Dodge broke, somebody I had just met loaned me a crew cab diesel Ford to take the horses and the teenage girls with me home.

Within two days the Ford had lost 1st and reverse!!!

That same day, my son's Chevy lost its clutch.

A Toyota was loaned to me to replace the Ford. Yeah, something that won't break, I thought.

Yesterday the starter went out on the Toyota.

This past Thursday we finally got the Chevy out of the shop with a new clutch.

30 minutes ago my son called... he was on his way to take the ACT exam... "Mom I didn't make it!"

Yikes!!!!! His truck is broke down 25 miles from the house! A cousin went to get him with a chain. My cousin has a brand new 03 Dodge Cummins and he said "Don't even touch my truck!".

Can I shoot these thing between the eyes and leave 'em lay????

Karen

 

[Spooled-up]

When it rains it pours!

 

[Turbo Horseman]

Karen



If they were my shoes instead of yours that I was standing in, I'd go with the conversion. I pull horses with a 5 speed and would prefer having the extra gear.



By the way, the OEM clutch wore well, then replaced it with a beefier aftermarket clutch. No problems, no worries. Wish I had a 6 speed.

 

[MCummings]

In the long run the NV5600 will hold more Power, run cooler, and pull more weight than the NV4500. .



No use to get another "stock" NV4500, as you will have to worry about the 5th gear nut, unless you get a fully splined mainshaft.



Not Guilty,, I suggest you talk to TDR Member charlan. He just wore out a 5-speed and put a Blumenthals Re-man NV5600.



When I put my Re-Man 6-speed in place of my broke 5-speed, the price difference was only about $200-$300 between a NEW 5-speed, and a re-man 6-speed.



Since intstalling the 6-speed I've been @ 457RWHP, and towing about 5,000 miles grossing @ 27,000-32,000 pounds cruising between 60 and 95MPH, using all my 450+ Horses.



SO far I've logged 20,000+ HARD miles on my 6-speed and NO problems.



I run a 14. 4 in the 1/4, NEVER letting off the Fuel Pedal, FUll throttle power shifts, and also 3rd gear donuts, and burnouts, and if conditions are slick, 4th gear burnouts. . (See my reader's rigs)



The NV5600 is nearly TWICE the size of the NV4500,, the NV4500 could be used behind a little V-6 motor, but the NV5600 looks like it could go behind an Cummins 8. 3 !! It's HUGE, and weighs almost twice as much!



If you plan on keeping the truck for awhile, the NV5600 is the smart thing to do.



Let us know what you do.



Merrick Cummings Jr



-------

BTW, Not affiliated with Blumenthals, or New Venture Gear, just extrememly happy with the performance of both companies.

 

[willyslover]

also give Standard Transmission a call for comparisons on price. . but by all means use the SouthBend Clutch !!

 

[Not Guilty]

Thanks!!!!

Thanks to all of ya'll!!! I really needed some knowledgeable input on this. The effort that you put into responding is greatly appreciated.

As soon as I can sell my 5th wheel or something else I will do something with the truck. The fiver is not much good w/o a truck to pull it.

One thing is for sure and everybody is right... I would really hate to drive a gasser and not have all the fun with the torque and smoke!

Thanks again,

Karen

 

[Turbo Trucker]

I had my 5 spd rebuilt for $1,100 about 40k miles ago and it's already acting weird. I pull a LOT of weight though. The only clutch that hasn't broken yet is the Southbend 13 inch.



I usually pull around 16-19k pounds. For the cost I think this has been the best way, I would like to get a 6 speed though next time.

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: I Give!!!!!

Originally posted by NotGuilty

OK I give ya'll.

When my Dodge broke, somebody I had just met loaned me a crew cab diesel Ford to take the horses and the teenage girls with me home.

Within two days the Ford had lost 1st and reverse!!!

That same day, my son's Chevy lost its clutch.

A Toyota was loaned to me to replace the Ford. Yeah, something that won't break, I thought.

Yesterday the starter went out on the Toyota.

This past Thursday we finally got the Chevy out of the shop with a new clutch.

30 minutes ago my son called... he was on his way to take the ACT exam... "Mom I didn't make it!"

Yikes!!!!! His truck is broke down 25 miles from the house! A cousin went to get him with a chain. My cousin has a brand new 03 Dodge Cummins and he said "Don't even touch my truck!".

Can I shoot these thing between the eyes and leave 'em lay????

Karen

Karen, bad Karma You need to bathe in 3 gallons of Amsoil full synthetic and then pray to the truck gods to take this curse off of you and your family :-laf



I would go with the 6 speed and the SBC clutch upgrade. Good luck and sorry to hear about your problems. You seem to have a good attitude about this run of bad luck.