What would you pull a 18k 5er with?

[rweis]

I have a 2002 3500 2WD DRW long bed stock at this point, auto 235 HP, 3. 54, Camper extra leaf springs, trailer towing package.



I part time now with a 30' 8k 5er. Have a 20k hitch.



In 3 years going to start full time with a 14. 5 UGVW (weighed with all options installed), 18. 0 MaxGVW 3axle 5er (Alfa Gold). That would put the GCVW at 28. 5k, well over the 20k stock rating.



Obviously redo the transmission, add exhaust brake, 4" exhaust, engine mods to about 400hp or ???, maybe a change to 4. 10 rear end. I do have the 2002 3500 rear disc brakes as standard.



Planning to pull just about anywhere in the US.



Would you keep the 2002 and mod it?, change it for a xxx?



Your thoughts and why?



Thanks,



I know there are members that have / are doing this and have / have not had problems with it. Just looking for ideas to best plan for the future.



Appreciate it,



Bob Weis

 

[Dkevdog]

I would use something like This .



Or actually, this one is my favorite (I've got a thing for Red trucks though )



In all seriousness, if you are plannaing on Full timing, and really going to be pulling like you say, then that is the only way to go in my opinion. Some type of medium duty rig. SAFETY and comfort way above our little trucks. Full timers will tell you that even though its an 18K fiver, you're gonna have alot of personal (and often heavy) items that add to that. You're flirting with disaster any other way.



Can a Dodge pull it- yes, that isn't the point though. Its whether or not you can stop it. You might want to look into

IRV2 for some insight from other fulltimers.



Let the:-{} (games) begin!!



Kev

 

[Okie-Go]

If I were to pull something like that all the time I would have an FL 70 by Freightliner with a cummins, 10speed manual transmission, e-brake,chrome saddle tanks, and air ride suspension along with other goodies. I would prolly want more but this would at least get it down the road safeley.

 

[Dean Upson]

A Freightliner. No pickup can pull a 18K rig safely or legally.



Dean

 

[Snow man]

what the others said,why fight for control of your truck full time,get a MD truck,and travel safely ,with a more powerful engine,and much more reliable drivetrain. I wouldnt use the Dodge auto at 28K GVWR anyway. Your at the weight limit now with your 30 ft trailer.

 

[Dean Upson]

I just checked the Dodge.com towing guide. The best you can do with that trailer (according to the data that I put in) would be with a 3500 4x2 DRW regular cab with 4. 10's. I assumed the pin weight of the trailer would put you in the DRW class. The maximum trailer load would be 16,150. That is just with the driver's weight allowance. The engine would be the HO Cummins with the 6 speed. I did not check, but the 48RE auto is probably the same GCVW. If your trailer weighs in at 14. 4 with all the options installed (bear in mind that some manufacturers have been very "conservative" in their weights), and you were very conservative with what you carry, you might just make it.



You cannot beef up the truck to haul more weight legally. The manufacturers GVW's and GCVW's are all that mean anything with the DMV and the courts if you get in a jam. I think one of the main issues here is the brakes. The '03 Dodge went to the 17" wheels because it gave them the means to put real brakes on our trucks (about time).



Dean

 

[RustyJC]

FL70 or larger. Get the right tool for the job the first time and be done with it. We tow a 36' 13,500 triple slide 5ver and are running 21,180 GCW (21,500 GCWR - the most Dodge offered in 2002). You can't go by the "trailer tow rating" - we would be way over our GVWR and GCWR if we tried to tow the 14,700 lb 5ver that's in Dodge's towing guide.



Rusty

 

[Underdog]

If, after all the good advice,you still insist on towing that

5th. wheel with your pick-up,please post your travel route

in advance so that ,I can be sure to be in a different part

of the country!!

 

[rweis]

Well, the responses are why I am here on TDR. Use the knowledge of those around you. Thanks to all that responded.



It is pretty obvious hands down that it needs to be a MD+ tow vehicle, or downsize the RV. I particularly liked the straight forwardness of the responses, "NO! that will not work!", but that is why I asked.



I err heavily on the safe side but I wanted others opinon, thanks.



Looks like back to the drawing boards and figuer in a MD+. Might delay full timing a couple of years, but will make the adventure more enjoyable.



Thanks again, I assume MD trucks sales / resales are somewhere on the internet.



Bob Weis

 

[RustyJC]

Bob,



With the OTR industry in the doldrums right now, there are some real bargains available. Although I've seen the posts over on iRV2, take a look at that class 8 Volvo Kevin (Dkevdog) has on the second link of his post - that truck costs less than our 3500 did! Warpath (the founder of iRV2.com) picked up a class 8 Freightliner for a comparable price and is building a "super Class C" motorhome on it using a ShowHauler box. Take a look at his truck conversion website HERE that covers class 8 5th wheel haulers. If you can live with a class 8 conversion, that's where you will get the most bang for the buck! There are a number of fulltimers pulling Alfa Golds, etc. with class 8 Volvos over on iRV2 - you might drop in the forums over there and chat with them if you're interested at all in this approach.



It might be hard to find a "SportChassis" Freightliner MDT in reasonable condition at comparable prices simply because so many fewer were made and, since these are specialty chassis primarily used for heavy 5th wheel towing rigs, they aren't victims of a weak OTR market. It's certainly worth a Google search, though.



Edit: P. S. - We walked away from a 39' Mountain Aire 5ver last year over this very issue. There's just no way I could justify towing an 18000 GVWR 5th wheel with our truck - a little overweight is one thing, but this 5ver would have put us over the moon!



Rusty

 

[Dkevdog]

Rusty is correct on the "Deals" out there on the MD rigs. Not only do they cost about the same or less in some cases as a new 3500 would, they are also going to retain their resale alot better. I came close to buying one, but stepped back to reality of how practical it would be in my case. There really are some rigs in excellent condition for the money too.



Kev

 

[Steve M]

Unless a MDT is desirable, an F-550 would pull that trailer. An F-650 Supercruiser would fit the MDT bill while maintaining a pickup truck interior. That and the F-650 can be had with a Cummins!

There's a couple on the Trailer Life forum who tow a 36' MountainAire with tandem duallies. They tow it with a Dodge Cummins 3500 auto/3. 54. I bet the truck tows the trailer pretty well with O/D locked out but that's alot of weight if it did get loose. I see quite often 3500 Dodge Cummins trucks towing three car auto transporters here in west central Florida. They're up around 23,000 lbs. One owner that I've had the chance to talk with has a 1st gen dually with an auto/3. 07. He said it's pretty sluggish.

One of the things I like about my '03 is, even with the 4. 10 ratio, I can lock out O/D if I have to and whisper along at 2900rpm/65mph until the road flattens back out.

 

[rweis]

One of the first questions I had about the MD size, how do YOU maintain it? An oil change must take significant gallons of oil, like > the 3 we use. Rotate tires?, must weigh a bunch for each one of them.



It is one thing climbing under my 3500's hood, but the wrench set for a MD must start at 2",lol.



Just thinking about it today, we went to the RV show in Tampa FL this weekend and remember a F550 or F650. If there is a cumming's under the hood, that helps, and at least you can find a F dealer (probably MUST be a heavy duty truck dealer certification) in most larger towns. I have never tried to find a Freightliner or Volvo MD truck dealer. Are there several?, generally findable? or just along the interstates?



Never really thought about a MD. What about driving it to downtown Live Oak, FL to a restrauant? Just seems a little weird taking your "tractor" puller to Shoney's for breakfast. Probably park it in the outfield at WalMart and drive throughs are a no no, lol. Of course my 3500 DRW is not drive through "certified" either.



However, I did call my wife and relay the ideas this afternoon (I had the day off, she did not). She said, "well, we will have to get the vehicle that will do this safely". I guess you can tell we are totally on the same page and that helps a whole bunch!



This is a WHOLE new direction. However, I can see the MD necesitity, just new line of thought, never really thought about it before.



I DEFINITELY will head over to the iRV2 site. I'm in an information search mode for sure.



Please continue to post your ideas and experiences as I value the TDR members ideas and information a lot.



Bob Weis

 

[C Schomer]

FWIW, 18,000 is the highest tow rating for an F550 TD - IF it has a 4. 88 diff. Then F650 jumps up a lot.

 

[Dkevdog]

I must say I'm a bit surprized (and pleased ) that not one member jumped up to the plate and gave the old "Oh sure! No problem!! Cummins can do it!... " response . Glad to see we're all in agreement on this one!! I remember posts bragging about how much over gross *I* can pull .



Kev

 

[BarryG]

Fellow member Fuzz and I were talking the other day and he gave me a site to check out. The stuff looks awesome. Take a look see www.powerhousecoach.com

 

[RustyJC]

Here's an alternate to the Powerhouse Coach. They do custom-builds on an MDT or Class 8 chassis that either they or you can provide. They just did Warpath's (the founder of iRV2.com) coach - it's the white Freightliner class 8 rig in their photos.



ShowHauler



Rusty

 

[rweis]

Thanks for ALL the really GOOD info so far.



I looked a little into other alternatives and can't find a dodge option to pull heavy weights, is there one?



I also tried to find the CGVW of the F450, F550, F650 and could not decipher the Ford site as to what the reality was. They listed CGVW but not what the Fx50 GVW was so you could not readily tell what was what.



I'm starting to find some of the Class 8 conversions. My wife would prefer (which may or may not be the end result) a truck looking vehicle like the Fx50 or something not like a full Semi tractor. She has a hard time pulling into the church parking lot in our semi tractor and hoping out to teach sunday school. However, ... ...



I'm starting to find out what drives the large full time RV's. Seem they are restricted to 400 square feet, but I have seen 17999 and 18500 for GVW for that size.



Looking at some of the Class 8's (I think that is the nomenclature), seem the Volvo 610's are popular. Seem like a lot of Fx50, maybe because they look like a passenger truck. What would make one more desirable than another?, never knew pac brakes come with multi stages, I have NO idea about some of the transmission names. Whew! Like drinking from a firehose.



How do you maintain something like a FL60, FL70? What kind of cost is involved in maintaining it? I know like NOTHING about the subject, kind of like at the small end of a funnel looking toward the big end. Some of the $$ don't seem too bad. If a FLxx has 500k on it, is that fairly "used" or just barely?



What a new horizon of information.



Thanks for the continued post, this is a real learning process.



Bob Weis



PS, thanks for a sane information passing process. Trying to learn this new arena is tough enough.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by Dkevdog

I must say I'm a bit surprized (and pleased ) that not one member jumped up to the plate and gave the old "Oh sure! No problem!! Cummins can do it!... " response . Glad to see we're all in agreement on this one!! I remember posts bragging about how much over gross *I* can pull .



Kev

Be that as it may, I do see something jumping out at me when I read this. Seems like anyone can go buy something like this with no knowledge about what it takes to maintain or handle them. This is not an attack on Bob or anyone else.



I know when any state raises this subject, all heck breaks loose. Somehow though, I think it should be addressed. Flame on.

 

[Dkevdog]

QRTRHRS - I am with you 1000% on this. Having a commercial license should be required just as it would be with ANY vehicle that size. I think the "RV use" exemption is bunch of cr@p. My wife has extensive commercial license credentials to drive a transit bus, but anyone with $250K can go and get one and drive off into the sunset. The thought is scary to say the least.



Bob- As far as maintenace goes, my neighbor owns and operates a fleet of tow rigs, all of them diesel and they range in size from Heavy duty chassis/tow and flatbeds on up to a 4 axel wrecker. He has 3 FL-70's and I have been around him to see the maintenance. If you intend on doing the work yourself (basic stuff mind you) I don't think it will be that much more than you're already paying for and would be doing on a pickup. Especiall the Med duty's. Those engines aren't that much larger than the cummins. It's a heck of lot easier to gain access to the engine bay for sure!! Is is gonna cost more to maintain?? Of course it will. My neighbor tells me that brake jobs are cheaper and easier on air though, I guess it all boils down to what you're capable of doing. Just remember that the resale down the line will be far better, and it will be the last truck you'll probably have to buy.



Kev