What would you pull a 18k 5er with?

[speedracer]

Maintenance of a MDT like FL series freightliner will basically consist of changing the oil and lubing the chassis. If you have an air dryer on the air system, the cartridge will need to be changed, but not as often as the oil. Longer term probably transmission and rear end lube changes, radiator flushes. Nothing real radical. The oil change intervals will probably be longer than on the dodge/cummins combo, it will depend on the engine you end up with. Getting a nice MDT toter will probably be a bit pricier than a toter built off of a class 8 truck, but might be better suited to your needs. Especially if the significant other is going to be driving and might be intimidated by the size of a class 8 tractor. Also, if you're going to be using the power unit for transportation when the rv is parked, a MDT will be easier than a class 8. It won't be as easy as the dodge, but you're going to have to make some sacrifices to pull that big trailer.

 

[C Schomer]

Rweis, I wish my maint. on this Dodge were as low as the OTR trucks I had! 300hp/800+tq. doesn't do much damage to the lubes, gears and bearings in those Roadrangers, 17 series joints and SQHD 38000lb diffs! The biggest thing (as far as safety to you and anyone else around) with the med and hd trucks is learning the right way to use and maintain air brakes. That and not using a low enough gear is why you see OTR trucks in the "runaway" ramps or murdering people! If you pump them or let the slack adjusters get loose - they run out of air really fast and don't have effective brakes. The Dec 02 Trailer Life has all the 03 truck tow ratings. Check out the libraries and copy those pages. It's a bit hard to cipher some of it (footnotes)! It's all subject to engine, wheelbase diff ratio etc. The max tow rating they show for F450 is 18,100, F550 is 21,400. The 650 and 750 ratings change to gvwr and gcwr (respectively). F650 is 23k and 43k for Super Crewzer. 26k and 40k for Regular/SC/CC (whatever that is). There's two different weight groups for F750 - don't see an explaination why - they appear to be the same groups but they don't say what the difference is. F750 is 30k and 45k for Regular/SC/CC, 33k and 60k for Regular/SC/CC again. Craig

 

[Steve M]

In December 2002 issue of Trailer Life, they feature an F-550 Classy Chassis at an earsplitting MSRP of $58,000 and as tested... . $89,154. I think I'd have to settle for XL trim.

They say it gets 10. 9mpg solo and 8. 2mpg towing a 10,141 lb 5th wheel. That's with a 4. 88 gear ratio and automatic transmission. It's rated to tow 21,000 lbs with a GVWR of 17,500 and a GCWR of 30,000 lbs. Curb weight as they have it set up is 9,340 lbs.

I would like to have seen the results of the F-550 towing closer to it's max but it would appear to be plenty of truck to tow 18,000 lbs. All of the F-550s I've seen around here with the snowbirds down for the winter are outfitted with a simple towing bed with lower side rails to accomodate the 5th wheel.

Personally, I'd have a hard time passing up a reg cab 1-ton dually Dodge Cummins HO 6spd (or even the 48RE) rated to tow 16,200 and limiting the trailer load to 1,500 lbs. Even the Quad Cab dually is rated for 15,800. I'd have to make a slight adjustment!

But that's just me!

 

[rweis]

I wonder if there is a school on these things. I have NO idea what a 17 series joint is.



Thanks on the TL Dec on all the 03's. I REALLY appreciate your patience with me trying to get a handle on this.



Would a truck driving school help in learning what and how to do this safely? Probably can't hurt. Do they teach systems as well as driving technique?



A recommendation from some of y'all on the best place to go to get a structured class is a good first step.



You just can't jump in one and crank it up and not screw it up. I am starting to get a feel of the magnitude of the change and my almost total lack of knowledge. SQHD 38000 diff probably is a square ????? 38000 pound? differential. Then as compared to a what other kind of differential.



A slack adjuster is a ????. Something to do with the air brake system, but you get the picture. Gotta find somewhere to get a baseline.



I am really thankful that I am here on TDR and can get information from y'all that know from first hand knowledge.



I can't thank each of you enough,



Bob Weis

 

[Ron Bissett]

Originally posted by Dkevdog

I must say I'm a bit surprized (and pleased ) that not one member jumped up to the plate and gave the old "Oh sure! No problem!! Cummins can do it!... " response . Glad to see we're all in agreement on this one!! I remember posts bragging about how much over gross *I* can pull .



Kev

Ever see a bragger state safety in his statement. ? MDT way to go in this case. Ron in Louisville KY

 

[C Schomer]

17 is a Spicer u-joint series. Timken SQHDs are rated 38000lbs capacity. Those joints and diffs used to be the most common in OTR trucks. The slack adjusters are what have to be manually adjusted on air brakes - no automatic adjusters, unless they were invented since I had OTR trucks. If you pump air brakes you use up the air supply fast. Those compressors on the engines are slow! If the slack adjusters are loose, more air is required to pressurize the brake diaphrams. Truck driving schools teach all that stuff but you'll get a lot more stuff you won't care about like ICC laws, individual state laws, proper authority, licensing, reciprocity etc. - all the stuff concerning commercial hauling. Check and see. You might be able to get the truck tech stuff, safety and things that apply to your situation and skip all the commercial stuff that will put you to sleep. Craig

 

[NVR FNSH]

Here's the link to the F650/750 forum over at The Diesel Stop - TDR for the Powerstroke.



http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB8



Brian

 

[rweis]

I figuered there was one out there somewhere, just did not know where, thanks.



TDR is a really great place, I wish my work place was as helpful, lol



Bob Weis

 

[speedracer]

I don't think a truck driving school would get you what you want. You don't need to know the regs and paperwork requirements of driving a big truck, and learning to drive a class 8 with a 53' trailer won't have a lot of relevance to pulling your rv trailer. If you end up getting a mdt (or even a class 8 based) toter with air brakes, then go find a skilled experienced truck mechanic and pay him to tutor you on the trucks systems. By the way, automatic slack adjusters are pretty standard these days, but you still need to keep an eye on them as they fail from time to time. And no matter what you're pulling that trailer with, absolutely have an exhaust or engine brake and know how to properly use it.

 

[John Berger]

The Cummins can do it. That's the problem that some run into around here. If the Cummins can do it, the rest of the truck should be good to go, huh? WRONG!!! After looking at brochures for all sorts of 5th wheels I've come to the conclusion that the Alfa's and Teton Homes 5'vers probably should not be towed by any of the big three one ton pickups. I see plenty of Teton Homes 5'vers at campgrounds though and they're usually pulled by a pickup truck I don't know what some people are thinking sometimes. I just hope I'm never around them on the highway. Coming down a big grade is interesting in it's own right with my Montana behind me. I shudder at the thought of one of those heavy babies behind me.

 

[rweis]

My point exactely,



When you tow it is a SYSTEM, not just engine, RV, but engine, brakes, cooling, transmission, RV brakes, and the weight of the whole thing.



You can tow a double wide moble home with a Model A Ford, if the gearing is right, but try to stop it with manual brakes.



What I have come to realize is that the heavier RV can not be towed with a one ton, no manufacturer of a one ton. People do it, but the safety margin is non existent.



I tow a 30' (8k) with my 3500 and the match is reasonable, and safe.



What I am going to do is run my 3500 and 30' for 5 years or so and see what the options are then. If the options are the same (roughly) as they are now, then go to a MDT. If Dodge has wised up and is building a MDT then fine they are a player, if not then they are not. Even in the MDT's because they weigh more the CGVW has to increase faster than the weight of the MDT. Like a F450, bigger truck, but not able to do 18k RV, F550, bigger truck, but depending on what you do for a bed, may or not be able to do 18k, etc etc etc.



I think the best advice I can see at this time is the tort advice. IF you are over CGVW and it becomes a legal battle then you are screwed, so don't do that. Just stay under CGVW period.



Sooooooooooooooo, use the setup I have now, and see what developes in the RV industry / truck industry over the next 5 years or so.

-------------------------

I DO want to THANK ALL those who have chimed in. Without TDR the decisions would have been more difficult. TDR is a GREAT place to investigate ideas and options!!!!!!!!!!!! There is such a wealth of experience here it is astounding.



THANKS AGAIN

-------------------------



Bob Weis

 

[Steve M]

I just ran across this and thought you might find it interesting.



http://www.canadiandriver.com/roadtest/03ram_hd.htm



That's quite a load and it doesn't look like central Florida in the background!

 

[rweis]

I went to a local diesel truck owners meeting recently. There are hints of a DC CTD 5500 and or 6500 in a couple of years. I'm going to run my Y2K+2 for 5 or 6 years and see what developes. Should be interesting!

 

[John Berger]

You gotta like the fact that they put a Chevy and a Ford on the trailer used for the test drive.

 

[Dkevdog]

Originally posted by rweis

I went to a local diesel truck owners meeting recently. There are hints of a DC CTD 5500 and or 6500 in a couple of years. I'm going to run my Y2K+2 for 5 or 6 years and see what developes. Should be interesting!

I have been hearing this for the last couple of years. I hear possibly a 2005 for a 4500 and 2006/2007 for 5500 and/or 6500. I also heard they will be available with mercedes truck engines.



Kev

 

[Paul Somers]

I am responding from my camp site right out of Orlando, FL. Right next to me is a Newmar 39' double dually ( 8 tires ) on two axels. Believe it or not, he is towing it with an older generation F350 with 460 gas. Going to make sure I don't leave same day he does.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by Paul Somers

I am responding from my camp site right out of Orlando, FL. Right next to me is a Newmar 39' double dually ( 8 tires ) on two axels. Believe it or not, he is towing it with an older generation F350 with 460 gas. Going to make sure I don't leave same day he does.

When we were camping in Austin last summer with our RVing group, we saw one of these tandem dually Newmar Mountain Aires being pulled by an F-250 SuperDuty with a V-10/automatic. He was quick to tell us how his truck had a "special order extra heavy duty" transmission and "special order extra heavy duty" brakes and "special order extra heavy duty" anything else you can think of and, besides all that, it could outtow any diesel dually in the RV park.



We nicknamed him "Mr. Heavy Duty"!



Rusty

 

[Steve M]

There's an Eddie Haskel everywhere you go.

There's a couple on another web site who pulls a Newmar tandem dually 5th wheel with a 2nd gen 3500 dually auto/3. 54. I wouldn't be concerned running right beside him in the interstate. The worst he'll do is shorten the life of his drive line. The trailer has electric hydraulic brakes and I'm sure is very well balanced. Probably tows more stable than most 10,000 lb mid level 5th wheels. And 3,000 lb pin weight is not overloading the truck. But an F-250 SRW... He's probably over his tire ratings if nothing else. We might see pictures of his rig belly side up some day.

 

[DBoyd]

Hey DKevdog,

I am in the Rio Grande Valley at McAllen, Edinburg, etc. about once a week and quite often I see Dodge 4500's up from Mexico. They are all stake beds about 12 to 14 ft. long and loaded as high as possible without hitting the overpasses!!!!

I am also seeing a Dodge 3500 being tested out of Corpus Christi dragging a trailer loaded with very large cement blocks and a plexiglass front installed to create wind drag. The truck is all black with an extraordinarily tall hood!! HMMMM?? How tall is a Mercedes or Cat engine compared with the Cummins??? Kinda makes you wonder.