What's in the Ark of the Covenant?

[Shovelhead]

Since we're all "Children of God" shouldn't it match all of us.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Good question shovelhead. I can see it now though, a DNA test and people will try and lay claim to being related to him. Some things may be better left a mystery.

 

[Sled Puller]

I get dizzy pondering religion. People go round and round for 2000 years and come up with... ... .



Well, ya just gotta have faith, man.

 

[Koa Man]

Originally posted by MJawsman

So the nail holes in His hands didn't really exist?

wesoule's reply about nails were through the wrists is correct. Impaling as a form of execution was on an upright stake. Victim would be laid on stake in the horizontal position arms raised above his head and nailed through the wrists on to the stake. If nailed through the hands the weight of the body would rip through when the stake was raised to the upright position with the victim on it. If the victim was not dead by the time it came to take them down, their legs were broken and this would quicken the death by suffication.



Don't ask me how I know so much about it... . well actually I was a Roman soldier in a previous life. :-laf

 

[The patriot]

Originally posted by EMDDIESEL

If i rememeber correctly, i think it was 60 Minutes that did a special on the Ark and supposedly its in Africa (I think) and they it was in a temple guarded by a family that will kill anyone who goes near it. Does anyone remember the episode?

Yes, I saw that. I think it was in Ethiopia.

Eric

 

[Koa Man]

You cannot compare doing chin ups, holding a bar with your fingers, to having a nail, I don't care how big, through the soft tissues of your hand and expect the tissues not to rip through after a time. Even if the feet were nailed, the legs would sag eventually, leaving the most of the body weight on the hands. If you saw pictures of the modern day Philipine crucifixtions, the person's arms is tied to a crossbar, standing on a ledge. Normally the feet is not nailed and the hands are not supporting any weight. This was not the case in the crucifixtion of Jesus.

 

[Pit Bull]

This is getting grotesque. Like who cares :-{}

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by Koa Man





If nailed through the hands the weight of the body would rip through when the stake was raised

I was taught that the nails went through the arm bones above the wrists for the reason you mentioned



Where did you read that the Romans used a simple pole with no cross bar? I thought the conventional cross used by the Romans was a cross bar type



I'm not debating, just asking

 

[Koa Man]

Originally posted by Texas Diesel





I was taught that the nails went through the arm bones above the wrists for the reason you mentioned



Where did you read that the Romans used a simple pole with no cross bar? I thought the conventional cross used by the Romans was a cross bar type



I'm not debating, just asking

The Imperial Bible Dictionary, edited by P Fairbairn, as well as the

Greek-English Lexicon by Liddell and Scott.

 

[lizzyhermit]

cross / stake

Koa Man - reference info:

An instrument such as that on which Jesus Christ met death by impalement. (Mt 27:32-40; Mr 15:21-30; Lu 23:26; Joh 19:17-19, 25) In classical Greek the word (stau·ros') rendered "torture stake" in the New World Translation primarily denotes an upright stake, or pole, and there is no evidence that the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures used it to designate a stake with a crossbeam.



The book The Non-Christian Cross, by John Denham Parsons, states: "There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together in the form of a cross. . . . it is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word stauros as 'cross' when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue, and to support that action by putting 'cross' in our lexicons as the meaning of stauros without carefully explaining that that was at any rate not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles, did not become its primary signification till long afterwards, and became so then, if at all, only because, despite the absence of corroborative evidence, it was for some reason or other assumed that the particular stauros upon which Jesus was executed had that particular shape. "-London, 1896, pp. 23, 24.

 

[KennyM]

I saw some show on one of the Discovery type channels that stated the ARC acted like a giant Capacitor, when it was carried around it built up an electrostatic charge and when touched or opened it discharged through that individual. This was the scientific point of view.



Ken

 

[lizzyhermit]

another refernece: Impalement

The Romans sometimes tied the victim to the stake, in which case he might live for several days before his physical endurance was overcome by the torture of pain, thirst, hunger, and exposure to the sun. As in the case of Jesus, nailing the hands (and likely the feet also) of the accused to a stake was customary among the Romans. (Joh 20:25, 27; Lu 24:39; Ps 22:16, ftn; Col 2:14) Since the wrists have always been considered by anatomists as part of the hands, some medical men think the nails were driven between the small bones of the wrists to prevent the stripping out that could have occurred if they had been driven through the palms. (See The Journal of the American Medical Association, March 21, 1986, p. 1460. ) This would be consistent with the Bible's own use of the word "hand" to include the wrist in such texts as Genesis 24:47, where bracelets are said to be worn on the "hands," and Judges 15:14, where reference is made to fetters that were on Samson's "hands. "

 

[RustyJC]

Re: cross / stake

Originally posted by lizzyhermit

Koa Man - reference info:In classical Greek the word (stau·ros') rendered "torture stake" in the New World Translation primarily denotes an upright stake, or pole, and there is no evidence that the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures used it to designate a stake with a crossbeam.

To my knowledge, there is exactly one group that utilizes the New World translation of the scriptures. It would be wise for the reader to check out which group that is before revising his/her theology to line up with the New World translation.



Rusty

 

[Texas Diesel]

I wouldnt call the New World translation a "translation", it was written to support one group's claims. A very poor attempt at translation, but an excellent translation to further the agenda of a single group.

 

[milehiscott]

Wow!! Can we get more religious discussion out of Doc's simple question?!?

Originally posted by Koa Man

Actually Christ died on an upright stake with no crossbar. The Greek word translated to cross is stau ros', proper translation would be upright pole or piece of paling. The Romans never used crossbars on their executional stakes.

Don't forget that there were several versions of crucifixion. It was actually invented by the Babylonians in the 500's B. C. The straight stake was one version that the Romans used. According to Roman records (I'll have to check to give you exact quotes, but I believe it is in the writings of Josephus), by the time of Jesus they were using the cross bar.

As to the nails: They were not used to hold up the person. They would tie the person to the cross to hold them there. The nails were strictly for pain. They would put them in the base of the hand or the wrist so that they went through the ulnar nerve. During WW2, solders that were shot in the hand described the pain as lightning bolts shooting up the arm to the shoulder. Morphine did nothing for them. This is what the Romans were going for with the nails. The feet were the same thing with the nerves running through the ankle to the foot.

As for the Greek: I start that class in the spring. I'll have to get back to you on that one.

Pit Bull- It was supposed to be gross. That was the point of crucifixion. :{

Scott

 

[Doc Tinker]

How much did a cross weigh? Was the crossbar mortised to the upright?



Doc

 

[jhartley]

What does all this have to do with the original question ??

 

[jhartley]

Here you go



http://www.domini.org/tabern/arkcovnt.htm