What's the best MILD engine control unit - Edge EZ, The Juice or Banks Six-Gun???

[RockinJ]

What's best for a STOCK engine - Edge EZ, The Juice or Banks Six-Gun???

I'm looking to wake-up ol' Clessie. Nothing wild, just more responsiveness and grunt in the low to mid RPM range. Except for an aFe Stage-1 with Torque Tube and an MBRP cat-back dual exhaust system, this engine's staying stock for now. Behind the flywheel is a G56 running through 3. 73's with stock 265 tires.



Here's my question: What's best (and SAFER for the engine) - - - fuel pressure management like the Edge EZ, or timing and duration management like The Juice? Banks claims that their Six-Gun combines fueling with timing and duration. Now, I know how some of y'all feel about Banks, but is their solution really the best of both worlds?



Since my turbo and and drivetrain are stock, I don't intend to run The Juice or a Six-Gun past Level-3. Please share your experiences and advice.



Thanks!

RJ

 

[BigGunZ]

I've been tossing around the same question and I'm starting to lean towards just a good set of injectors. I think this route coupled with a better flowing intake/exhaust will give me the power I want and the reliability and safety I need with less warranty issues.

 

[Scrappy]

try a Van Aiken C3. 1, it fuels at a lower rpm than the others and tapers off towards the top end to control EGT's. I am going to stack one with my TST when I get the funds rounded up and my other projects done.

 

[Camp]

I am very happy with the Juice/Attitude. Since you can set all your own alarms on it as well as where you want it to back down, I think that offers the safety level you may be looking for. As for changing injectors, that will void your warranty just as quick as anything, especially since you can't pull them out easily before taking the truck to the dealer for unrelated work. If they happen to find them running some tests on your truck, they will pitch a fit.



As for the power the Juice will make, take a look at the thread I just posted about my first shot at getting on the dyno. Do remember though, my level 3 is the same as level 4 on the normal Juice since I am running the HOT version.

 

[BigGunZ]

I As for changing injectors, that will void your warranty just as quick as anything, especially since you can't pull them out easily before taking the truck to the dealer for unrelated work. If they happen to find them running some tests on your truck, they will pitch a fit.

From my experience, injectors being a strictly mechanical device, are less likely to create problems, or raise red flags since they're nothing more than a "calibrated hole". Most techs know that factory injectors are cheap. I have an extensively modified Corvette with nothing but bolt-on mechanical mods. Mechanical mods usually only affect one particular system or operation whereas an electronic box interacts with several and tricks them to do things that they're not designed to do. I've had numerous techs tell me that provided I haven't messed with the PCM, an OBD II equipped vehicle will safely adapt to most all mechanical mods. PCM scans I've performed have verified this to be true.

That said, all modifications do have the potential to create warranty problems but electronic boxes have a tendency to to paint a picture of a "hot rodder", even prompting owners to remove them before taking their vehicle in for a repair as you have stated... I don't know anyone that would take off their cat-back, cold-air induction, or aftermarket fuel injectors, they're just viewed a little differently.

 

[CMullen]

Similar concerns

I had the same questions (see other posts). I just had juice/atttitude installed and am happy with the product. I like the fact that its timing and duration without screweing with the pressure.



also running 1, 2, or 3 level is whats recommended by Edge for stock trucks.





its also discipline not to crank it up to 5

 

[RMalone]

I've got to wonder how much just injectors for a stock truck will help. The stock injectors are suitable to make 500+ H. P. with the proper mods. The third gens don't like to fuel until they see boost and they don't like to fuel when they see tons of boost. Also stock 3rd gens run with retarded injection timeing so I think you still need to address injection timeing and boost fooling to see some serious results.

 

[Matt400]

running 1, 2, or 3 level is whats recommended by Edge for stock trucks.

its also discipline not to crank it up to 5

Thats a good point and reason enough to include a feature so you can "program out" levels that are not a good idea to use without other mods. That way you or another driver can't simply bump the up arrow into a danger zone. I wish TST did that.



Then when you do other mods like trans and or turbo you would simply program those levels back in as selectable.



I wish I knew how much timing the Juice adds if any or if it just changes the curve.

 

[Tomeygun]

Thats a good point and reason enough to include a feature so you can "program out" levels that are not a good idea to use without other mods. That way you or another driver can't simply bump the up arrow into a danger zone. I wish TST did that.



Then when you do other mods like trans and or turbo you would simply program those levels back in as selectable.



I wish I knew how much timing the Juice adds if any or if it just changes the curve.

I do that when my truck is in service - I take out the remote to the tst - So I set it on 2/2 or lower and the lack of remote does not allow any changes - FWIW



And as for safety - I would recommend the VA3. 1 or a Edge Juice (due to the 04. 5 and up using no pressure increase)

 

[TCDiesel]

The Gun for Dodge is only loaded with Timing/Pressure at this time Duration is reserved for VGT. The Gun Has all Three in the LLY,LB7,6. 0 applications. The PDA will be available in Mid Oct,with the PDA you will not need gage's or the speed loader if desired. The PDA will be a Multi-function device.

 

[Matt400]

I do that when my truck is in service - I take out the remote to the tst - So I set it on 2/2 or lower and the lack of remote does not allow any changes - FWIW

Hrmm, didn't know you could do that. I thought the TST controller was hardwired same as the Attitude.

 

[TCDiesel]

I'm looking to wake-up ol' Clessie. Nothing wild, just more responsiveness and grunt in the low to mid RPM range. Except for an aFe Stage-1 with Torque Tube and an MBRP cat-back dual exhaust system, this engine's staying stock for now. Behind the flywheel is a G56 running through 3. 73's with stock 265 tires.



Here's my question: What's best (and SAFER for the engine) - - - fuel pressure management like the Edge EZ, or timing and duration management like The Juice? Banks claims that their Six-Gun combines fueling with timing and duration. Now, I know how some of y'all feel about Banks, but is their solution really the best of both worlds?



Since my turbo and and drivetrain are stock, I don't intend to run The Juice or a Six-Gun past Level-3. Please share your experiences and advice.



Thanks!

RJ

I would to make a clarification between Protection and safety. first Protection is a know condition(example trans Protection,since most products can produce more HP than a stock Trans can hold under certain conditions it needs to be protect from the added HP). Safety is the ability to STOP a problem from ever developing,(Injector problem develops,is the device that was added have the technology to notice this and default to stock WITHOUT affecting engine operations) Your device needs to have Know value ability coupled with engine analysis.

 

[Jengle]

[QOUTE=Tomeygun]I do that when my truck is in service - I take out the remote to the tst - So I set it on 2/2 or lower and the lack of remote does not allow any changes - FWIW[/QOUTE]

Hrmm, didn't know you could do that. I thought the TST controller was hardwired same as the Attitude.

I know the remote has a plug fitting to the main unit, but I had no idea that it would run with it disconnected. I just set mine back and roll up the wire and tie wrap it under the dash, out of sight. Just wish I could find a clean way to hide all that extra footage of wire for the EGT probe. Could use that footage on the control harness to give me a little extra reach in the cab. Wishful thinking, there.

 

[Bob4x4]

From my experience, injectors being a strictly mechanical device, are less likely to create problems, or raise red flags since they're nothing more than a "calibrated hole". Most techs know that factory injectors are cheap. I have an extensively modified Corvette with nothing but bolt-on mechanical mods. Mechanical mods usually only affect one particular system or operation whereas an electronic box interacts with several and tricks them to do things that they're not designed to do. I've had numerous techs tell me that provided I haven't messed with the PCM, an OBD II equipped vehicle will safely adapt to most all mechanical mods. PCM scans I've performed have verified this to be true.



That said, all modifications do have the potential to create warranty problems but electronic boxes have a tendency to to paint a picture of a "hot rodder", even prompting owners to remove them before taking their vehicle in for a repair as you have stated... I don't know anyone that would take off their cat-back, cold-air induction, or aftermarket fuel injectors, they're just viewed a little differently.

I have to disagree about adding injectors first on a 3rd gen. Unless you are having your injectors modified and know you are starting out with GOOD injectors there is far more risk with injectors. These common rail injectors are nothing like the simple earlier injectors. We have more injector issues than with electronics.

If you have a problem with an add on box on the road,no big deal unplug and drive on. An injector problem on the road... ... ... loose an engine,or maybe just have to park it till a replacement shows up. How fast do you think you will receive an f-1 injector when you are sitting in BFE?



Bob

 

[Matt400]

How fast do you think you will receive an f-1 injector when you are sitting in BFE?

:-laf :-laf Never thought of it that way.

On the other hand its just the nozzles spray pattern and hole size that changed isn't it? I thought on 3rd gens they use an OEM injector and modify the fuel exit area and not the solenoid portion so not much to go wrong.

 

[Bob4x4]

:-laf :-laf Never thought of it that way.

On the other hand its just the nozzles spray pattern and hole size that changed isn't it? I thought on 3rd gens they use an OEM injector and modify the fuel exit area and not the solenoid portion so not much to go wrong.

I have done enough of these injectors to have been burnt with bad injectors. Too many people have sent their bad injectors in as cores. I still don't beleive the aftermarket companies have the capabilities to fully test these common rail injectors. You might also wonder why you dont see injectors for the 600's advertised. These injectors are very complex... ... ... the safest way to get them is the way F-1 is doing it,send in your injectors to be built. The downside remains,if you are on the road travelling and one fails,can you wait as long as it will take?



Bob

 

[BigGunZ]

I have to disagree about adding injectors first on a 3rd gen. Unless you are having your injectors modified and know you are starting out with GOOD injectors there is far more risk with injectors. These common rail injectors are nothing like the simple earlier injectors. We have more injector issues than with electronics.
If you have a problem with an add on box on the road,no big deal unplug and drive on. An injector problem on the road... ... ... loose an engine,or maybe just have to park it till a replacement shows up. How fast do you think you will receive an f-1 injector when you are sitting in BFE?

Bob

I see your point but don''t the factory injectors have the same chance of failing? (I wouldn't put re-tipped injectors on my truck)

 

[Bob4x4]

I see your point but don''t the factory injectors have the same chance of failing? (I wouldn't put re-tipped injectors on my truck)

Well what I see is we have relatively low injector failure rate with the common rail compared to what the TDR makes it seem like,but a fairly significant number of people will send their faulty injectors in as a core not seeing or maybe even thinking about the headache it may cause some one downstream. A new injector from a dealer is about $600 bucks. Who will spend 3600 to get a known good set of cores?

As far as I know nobody in the aftermarket is starting with new injectors. So if you decide to do injectors they will be built with somebodies used injectors.

I have a truck in my shop right now with 275000 miles on it,he hauls cars for a living,he only wants to replace the one shorted injector. (when one shorts it will take down 2 with it they are on the same circuit) I am very happy with my low mile stock injectors for now



Bob

 

[Matt400]

Too many people have sent their bad injectors in as cores.

That would worry me, possibly buying someone elses bad injector.

the safest way to get them is the way F-1 is doing it,send in your injectors to be built. The downside remains,if you are on the road travelling and one fails,can you wait as long as it will take?

Good point, much more easy to pop in one OEM and be done with it.

I guess if you bought F1's you would have to buy an OEM one and then ship to them to be modified, then wait for that to get done and shipped to where ever you are.

 

[BigGunZ]

A new injector from a dealer is about $600 bucks.

Holy crap:--) :--) I had no idea. Are these by chance "magic" injectors?
There goes my master plan:{