2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission wheel nut torque

[dieselsam59]

When torqueing the lug nuts on my truck after tire rotation it seems as though the bolts stretch for nearly a turn before 135--140lbs. clicks

Is this normal?



i usually do oil the threads.

 

[LandShark]

No on the oil. You've most likely ruined the studs and should replace them.



Torque specs are for clean, dry, threads, unless otherwise specified.

 

[illflem]

What makes you think the bolts are stretching?



Highly doubt your studs are ruined, I know lots of folks who use a couple drops of oil. I personally use anti-seize, hasn't been a problem for 200k, I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[Deezul1]

Ditto on the anti sieze, I hate stripping threads and lug bolts are the worst repeat offenders

 

[fmj]

I agree on streaching the bolts. Theres no way that you can feel that size bolt streach. The only way I can tell my head bolts streach is measure them new and then measure them after each tear down. ARP gives the information on when to trash. I also use anti sieze on wheel studs. Remember that using oil or anti sieze will increase torque. Reduce the torque by about 15 to 20%.

 

[Speedo]

Wheel studs

A large fleet in Maryland? had problems caused by maintenance

personnel using anti-sieze on wheel studs. They had to replace

stretched studs at a cost in excess of a quarter million dollars by

the time all was said and done. I have seen it happen in our own

fleet when one of our mechanics decided to use anti-sieze on

wheel studs. I know that some people get away with it but it is

not a good practice and I would never do it myself.



Gus

 

[fmj]

Gus, your right they overtorqued them. When you use oil, antisieze, etc. and torque a stud/bolt to the same origional dry specs your torque is going to be 15 to 20% higher. ie snap. Thats why if lube is used the value must be refigured to account for it. I'll also bet that the fleet guys used an air impact with one of the torque setting end sockets and not a torque wrench. Heres an example of just using oil vs ARP lube (moly). If you use ARP lube you torque bolts to 65 ft lbs; if you use motor oil you torque to 85 ft lbs. Just figure what would happen if you had a dry spec of 85 and used their lube. Big overtorque. I use antisieze on wheels on all my 4x4s and never had one break or come loose. I've seen more galling going on or off because of no lube than breaking. I refigure dry torque and reduce it for using lube. Only my $. 02 worth.

 

[illflem]

If you use the manual recommended low number with lube you should be fine. On my '95s the recommendation is 135-165 ft/lbs

 

[Pit Bull]

I just use my arms I tighten them up real good in a crisscross pattern. Never had any come loose. I don't have a torque wrench that goes to 185 lbs.

 

[grtescpa]

Over torque???

Are you sure you guys know what your talking about? 160 ft Lbs is 160ft LBS. A ton of feathers weights the same as a ton of steel. Using oil on the thread helps seat the thread more evenly. I spent 3 years at an aircraft school and we always used oil on steel bolts unless another type of self lock was used. Its called lube torque. (Almost all bolts are safety wired on planes). I don't know about you but I hate fighting off lug nuts that were never oiled. That wrenching sqeek and snap sound that tears at the threads! UGGG! Just my dollars worth.

 

[LandShark]

160 ft lbs on a rusty bolt with damaged threads is NOT the same as 160 ft lbs on oiled threads. We are not weighting the lugs; we are using them to clamp the wheels to the axle. What you are trying to achieve is the correct clamping force. The best way to get correct clamping force is to torque to specs with clean, dry, lugs and nuts.



You can stretch and even break lugs using oil or grease and factory torque specs. I've done it! There are seat of the pants methods for using oil, grease or anti seize, but why bother?



I think from my personal experience that there is a good chance that you have over torqued your lugs.

 

[illflem]

Friend of mine pointed out and I checked - '97 owners manual says, "On dual rear wheels clean the lug nuts and add two drops of oil at the interface between the hex and the washer. " I know it isn't saying to oil the threads, but they are recommending oil.

Manual also said something I might not always follow, at least not consciously, "Final torque must be reached with the tires off the ground. "

 

[fmj]

Bill, thats a new one on me also. I know that I don't let the wheel alway down to torque, but thats because I wanted to make sure the lug nut stayed centered in recess. Just let the tire barley touch so it didn't rotate. It was just some dumb logic that I thought was better for the tighting process. I do retorque after driving 50+ miles. I was always told that aluminum wheels required this (??), and I've always done it on my alumium and steel wheels. You cause me to look again at my owners manual and they don't mention in the 2001 anything about the torquing off ground. I wonder what changed? They do mention torquing after a 100 miles. I couldn't find anything in the service manual either. I guess I'll still let the tire barley touch because old habits are hard to break.

 

[Pit Bull]

I know we are anal truck guys. Now think of John Q citizen goes in and has his truck serviced and they rotate and balance his tires. Now how many of these people re-torque their wheels after 100 miles? I bet 98% don't. How many wheels fall off of trucks going down the road? After 5000 miles how many people have the mechanic say when they are getting their tires rotated again that their lug nuts were loose? How about none. this is a non issue. JMHO

 

[dieselsam59]

update

I rotated tires again---sorta found answers. after 45 minutes of driving i lost three out of four centercaps(i have aluminum wheels-stock) seems as though it was not the studs stretching rather the aluminum deforming letting the lug nut go deeper into the wheel now the centers cannot latch over the nuts



funny thing is i oiled three out of four wheels the one i did not oil was the first for the cap to fall off (thiry feet the first time who knows where the second)



ive been torqueing wheel nuts for four years know as part of me occupation ---- oiling threads for two years no other problems except for a blazer that had the studs previously stretched (they snapped at 60 lb. )



from my experince oil keeps things from coming loose it may reduce neccassary torque for tightening but it does not normally cause overtorque



if any of you guys are wondering about your trucks i can now see a slight bulge around the lug nuts, if anyone else has these bulges let me know thanks

 

[illflem]

Pit Bull, I've known several people who have had their wheels come off driving down the road. 100% of them were within a mile of the tire shop that overtorqued the lugs and cracked the studs. None were Rams.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by illflem

Pit Bull, I've known several people who have had their wheels come off driving down the road. 100% of them were within a mile of the tire shop that overtorqued the lugs and cracked the studs. None were Rams.

:-laf :-laf That's because you can't find any bigger studs than us Ram owners. We're hard to crack.

 

[dremelts]

Let me just throw in my . 03 worth (inflation ). I don't oil the threads because I want the nuts to maintain their grip on the studs, but I DO oil the conical surface of the nut where it seats in the countersink on the wheel (stock steel wheels). This seems to reduce the scrreeech when loosening them.

 

[grtescpa]

Impact gun or torque wrench?

Originally posted by LandShark

160 ft lbs on a rusty bolt with damaged threads is NOT the same as 160 ft lbs on oiled threads. We are not weighting the lugs; we are using them to clamp the wheels to the axle. What you are trying to achieve is the correct clamping force. The best way to get correct clamping force is to torque to specs with clean, dry, lugs and nuts.



You can stretch and even break lugs using oil or grease and factory torque specs. I've done it! There are seat of the pants methods for using oil, grease or anti seize, but why bother?



I think from my personal experience that there is a good chance that you have over torqued your lugs.

If you say you torque them down dry and then say adding oil will over torque makes no sense if its a hand held torque wrench. I have lube torqued for many years. I have never had a problem with any lug nuts from any vehicle I have owned in over 40 years. If your using an impact gun set to a specific ILBs of tightness then you are not applying torque, you are applying a hammer. That will over tigthen any nut that had oil applied. An impact gun is a lazy mans tool. This is why Aircraft mechanics attend so many hours of school and have to sign a log book of all work performed. I have said all I'm going to say on this topic.

 

[kchristopher]

Re: Impact gun or torque wrench?

Originally posted by grtescpa

If you say you torque them down dry and then say adding oil will over torque makes no sense if its a hand held torque wrench.

You are correct in that the term overtorque is probably being misused. 160# on the torque wrench is always the same. What is different is the amount of stretch of the bolt - what we are really trying to achieve in the first place. Lubrication on the threads will result in more bolt stretch at a certain torque than the same torque on dry threads. That is what everybody is referring to when they mention overtorque.



If you have an issue with more stretch with lubrication, well, I'd have to question your airschool training. ARP gives different torque specs depending on dry or lubed for a reason.