When will the monthly fuel cost be enogh for you????

[Bobcatpat]

I have two cummins trucks and as of tomorrow 1 is being sold. Cant afford to drive it anymore. :{ In its place im picking up a VW Jetta with the TDI engine. 50 mpg is ALOT better than 17 with the 12 valve. It sucks but I gotta make a change.

This is what we all need to do in america, and maybe the fuel prices would settle back down. I bought a used car to drive two years ago. I use the car for everything except work. Then I use my 3500 for work, when I need it. I don't see how people drive these trucks as just everyday vehicles. It is just too expensive and wasteful. These trucks are for work.

 

[RGardner]

Has anyone heard the price of fuel addressed in the presidential debates? Seems strange to me that one of the biggest problems that we have right now none of the candidates are addressing. Guessing that they are all bought and paid for!

 

[RGardner]

I have no problem with the commodity futures if indeed they were a true hedge, that is you either take delivery of the product or deliver the product that you are hedging. The problem is with the big hedge funds and others involved in the markets it is no longer a true hedge (as the markets were designed to be) but rather pure speculation.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I have no problem with the commodity futures if indeed they were a true hedge, that is you either take delivery of the product or deliver the product that you are hedging. The problem is with the big hedge funds and others involved in the markets it is no longer a true hedge (as the markets were designed to be) but rather pure speculation.

AGAIN, ABSOLUTELY!



Commodities trading is to smooth out peaks and valleys in (gasp!) COMMODITIES, such as wheat and other SEASONAL agricultural products.



Crude oil is pumped, bought, transported, and refined as FAST as it is available to the refiners 24/7/365 - so HOW can any thinking person profess the traders are performing ANY "valuable service to society", other than fattening their own bank accounts?

 

[wcaldwell]

I normally drive 38 miles each day to work - then back home again. Normally, I carpool either with my wife (who works in town also) (in her '03 Buick Rendezvous (gag)) or with another guy who works about 3 blocks from my office (in his '02 Ford Focus (double gag)). Normally, I might drive my truck to town maybe one day in the week. Even though I don't care for either of the other two vehicles, it sure cuts down on my fuel bill - it's cheaper to fill the wife's car each week than my truck.



What I've noticed, though, is that when I'm sitting there at 65 (in my truck or in the wife's car) it seems as though almost everyone else has to be doing a good 80 - 85 mph. I know, those of you who drive for a living can't make enough miles in a day to drive 65. However, for the most of us who are simply commuting, slow down. I've found that it adds about 5 more minutes to my trip and I get much better mileage.



One thing that I don't understand - everyone seems to be concerned about the price of a barrel of oil and then focuses on the price of the fuel they purchase and the amount of profit (I agree - those profits are totally immoral) the oil companies are making. But who keeps raising the prices on a barrel of crude? Look at how many other products we buy (consume) that are made from oil in one form or another - i. e. , all of the plastic that we throw into our garbage can and it's hauled to the dump (I'm guilty). Another thing is that no one seems to be excited about the amount of profits the credit card companies are raking in and how far in debt they are helping the American public by increasing the customer's credit limits.



Just my thoughts... ... .



Wayne

 

[klenger]

In my opinion, if you need to think about wether or not you can afford to drive a large vehicle... that probably means you don't need it in the first place.



So, if your thinking about selling your large vehicle... please do the world a favor, and sell it.

... or quit complaining about the high cost of diesel fuel.

 

[DCreed]

When I finally had enough money( and needed it for my business) I bought a diesel truck, fuel was less than $3 a gallon and $. 50 less than gas. That was 18 months ago!!!! now that the crude oil mafia has decided to screw us for every penny they can before the new oil reserves are tapped we should sell our diesels for a tremendous loss and drive a corolla??? I'd like to see the look on my customers face as I back up to the barn in a new prius to shoe their horses! Or perhaps I should tell those who are already cutting back to keep their animals that along with every other expense they have to bare from the high cost of fuel, my rates are going up too?? Think of your childs/wifes face after they got their dream of a horse that now you'll need to sell him because its just not affordable now, as you read of the market manipulation and record profits and how we have more oil than we can refine and then even more untapped in SEVERAL countries including our own! your right, seems fair to me!#@$%!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

What the "Let them eat cake" crowd are only too willing to overlook, is that a large degree of the energy costs we are facing are ARTIFICIAL, added purely as a tool used by middlemen to enrich themselves at the expense of our society!



I have no problem paying increases for goods and services that arise from NATURAL and unavoidable increases in their own cost of manufacture - but I *DO* have a problem, when *I* am forced - or expected - or advised - to just bend over and TAKE it with a smile, to embrace the radical change in MY lifestyle, simply so the FEW can enrich themselves at the unnecessary expense of the MANY!



And I have YET to see ANY convincing demonstration that Commodities day traders provide ANYTHING of benefit in regards to costs to end user fuel customers!

 

[Garlic]

If you really think about it we are still paying for the most inexpensive fuel cost in the developed world. In the late 70's in Germany the gasoline costs were $3. 75 per gallon on the economy. Right now my dollar per mile cost for the 96 V-10 Gasser are the same, the difference is when we tow. It, unfortunatly is the cost we must bear.

 

[2Bear]

AGAIN, ABSOLUTELY!



Commodities trading is to smooth out peaks and valleys in (gasp!) COMMODITIES, such as wheat and other SEASONAL agricultural products.



Crude oil is pumped, bought, transported, and refined as FAST as it is available to the refiners 24/7/365 - so HOW can any thinking person profess the traders are performing ANY "valuable service to society", other than fattening their own bank accounts?

Gary,



Easy Bro, Lets not form up a lynch mob just yet.

... . I'm on your side.



There is blame to be placed, but who are the manipulators "Exactly" ?



As I said earlier ... . traders perform a service... . they provide "LIQUIDITY" to the market... that includes day traders..... you'd play hell getting a good fill price without them.

Liquidity does not mean that it smoths out peaks and valleys... . I didn't say that.

There's all sorts of traders... .competing with each other... . on all sorts of time frames.

Long term short term, day.

Speculation is a global pastime... . that's why Las Vegas exists.

But it doesn't change..... SUPPLY & DEMAND !



As you yourself make the point..... oil is pumped transported and sold as fast as possible.....

That is DEMAND ! It's demand that drives prices.

If there's enough oil..... then who's holding it back ? and why ?

And who is big oil ?

Rockerfeller is quoted as saying..... Competition is a SIN ! Think about that.

... . Chase Manhattan is the bank Rockerfeller founded..... but there are others, JP Morgan etc.

They conspire... . so as not to compete.

Of course they were buying tons of contracts once they had their plan in place.



Hedge funds blow up all the time, as you know.

One may want to read the history of LTCM (Long Term Capital Management).

A bunch of top Scientists and Nobel prize winning economists formed up and blew up

the fund because they couldn't manage risk.

Then who bails em out ? The Federal Reserve... . ( that means US ..... ultimately ).



Like I said... . I'm with you... . there are culprits here... . there is conspiracy.

But I suggest we take another look.



If we want to point to the cause... ...

I respectfully submit that one takes a look at the well documented and

publically available... . History of the Federal Reserve.

The Federal Reserve is no more Federal than ... ... Federal Express ... a deceptive name

..... it is emphatically ..... a private International Banking Cartel.

And we peons are the sheep for the shearing.

Our legislators put them in charge of our money a long time ago..... offically so in 1913.

Much like putting Dracula in charge of the Blood Bank !





Follow the money trail and it'll take you to the truth everytime.

Where's the money... ..... in the internationalists banks.



The Golden Rule is: He who has the Gold makes the Rules !

Who has the Gold ... ..... The FED !

And their long term investment has been doing quite well lately eh?



I wish all Americans would read the book... .

The Creature from Jekyll Island... . by Griffin.

Hope this link works to Amazon.



Amazon.com: The creature from jekyll island: Books



You know, I'm just an old cowboy trying to figure all this stuff out over the years..... because when I was a young Marine in Vietnam (65, 66, 68), I remember seeing pallets and pallets of Anaconda Copper sheet sitting on the beach..... and what did we do with it ?... ... . we ROOFED our living quarters with it ... ...

I smelled a Rat... ... . The Lords of War created the DEMAND ! ( when there was no real demand ).



If things get bad enough..... we'll eventually all have another revolution of some kind..... when the little guy gets squeezed to the point of unbearable... ... like you say the "Let em eat cake" point. .



I always try to be opened minded about any point... I love to be proven wrong.

In this case, I'd love to be proven wrong..... Maybe I'd sleep better at nights.



Most people don't seem to realize just how really really bad it is !

It's Terrifying !



BTW: The April Crude oil contract closed at $108 today ( Monday 3. 10. 08 ).

... ... ... Gold at... . $975 oz.

And that's not the price of things going up... . it's the value of our dollar going down.



Me I just try to be of good cheer and make someones day a little better if possible.

That's all we got.



And a parting quote:



The Law locks up both man and woman,

Who steals the goose from off the common.

But lets the greater felon loose,

Who steals the common from the goose.



Happy Trails

Ray



.

 

[RGardner]

Interesting quote on reuters today



Analysts said crude's rise despite swelling inventories highlights the disconnect between supply and demand fundamentals and the current, speculator-driven price.



"It is a ridiculously bearish report," said Stephen Schork, editor of The Schork Report.



"We have major concerns regarding the economy in the United States, rising supply, falling demand. Why is crude oil trading at over $100 per barrel? It makes no fundamental sense. "



The current high price of oil has nothing to do with supply and demand, it has to do with speculators buying up oil futures as a hedge against inflation! We are back to what I have said about futures markets, they are a useful tool to hedge your commodity but should not be available for speculation. Large sums of money can skew the price of commodities to the detrement of the general public.

 

[2Bear]

Whoa... ..... thats' a beauty !



I'll reconsider my thinking... ..... thank you.

Especially Big Speculators... ..... read... ... "FED".

Called ... . eating Crow !





Good-un.



Ray

 

[tolmsted]

#@$%!#@$%!#@$%!#@$%!

I'm feed up with the speculators and the FED!!!!

 

[2Bear]

.



I don't understand what's going on with this website... .

When I go to the home page from the internet.....

Go to Politics... . and this discussion... . I see only "ONE PAGE "

And yet, I can post here..... on page 3 when I do so

with a response from the email that TDR sends me when someone responds... ...



What's goin' on - somebody help me out here... .



( Hey, I'm paranoid... . whadda ya expect..... I cut my teeth in Vietnam ).



And continuing the discussion.....

Then the FED, sets up these Hedge Funds, that spec up the price.

Then they Blow Up... ... .

Then they bail em out... ... and it's us who's pickin' up the ticket !



. Sigh.....

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Your confusing two different posts because this post isn't in the politics section. This is in the general diesel section.

 

[2Bear]

Steve, yes, thank you... .

That's exactly what happened.

What a relief, I scared myself spitless.

Sooo Sorry.







So... today Bear Stearns goes down... . Bail out time.

see my other thread The FED..... (Politics Forum)



... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

On the speculators note..... I found this post on another thread.



Speculators can't push oil prices up for very long. you can buy and take delivery of a bunch of silver or gold and hold it in a vault for a long time. you cannot do this with oil. storage facilities are limited and the contracts expire monthly. so you either take delivery or sell. speculators sell. that means the current price is legit whether you like it or not.





Comments ?





... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...



What I love about the internet

..... is the potential for discovery of truth via debate.

I hope we can keep it free..... God help us if we can't.



Be of good cheer my Brothers.



Ray

.