I got the 216 code and the dead pedal problem at low speed. So its time to start looking for the vp44. I need suggestions on upgrades and where to get one. Thanx
James
James
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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Where to buy vp44's
- Thread starter JamesSimpson
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Ok is there anythingelse that could cause a dead petal problem? If I have the 0216 code is that for sure a dead or soon to be dead vp44? This is my daily driver with no mods unless you consider fp and pyro gauges a mod. I have my first kid on the way in May so I cant really blow alot of money on somthing that might be broke. As of monday the truck ran fine. (Its in the bodyshop at the dealer AND IM IN MINIVAN HELL lol) I would have the dealer look at it but Im sure they are just going to put it on that little machine and tell me the same codes that I pull with the key trick. Or are they able to get more indepth?
I bought this truck used with 50k ish on it. It was awsome!! At about 70k I noticed that I had gone from around 25mpg to 16mpg no matter what. Towing, haulin A**, both at the same time or driving like a civilized person it was 16 mpg. I have had a strange surging sound since sept but only when starting cold and at all rpms untill warm. I lost the LP about a month ago 100 miles from home. Made it home and changed the pump now i have over 15 psi idle(autometer guage1-15psi) and no less than 11-12ish WOT. Befor the pump failer I had 10 idle ,3 WOT 4-6 cruising. Now I have had the deadpedal twice in one week and twice from a dead stop to WOT right out of the hole I have had it buck only once but hard enough that even with the auto I threw me forward and back so hard the seat belt bruised my chest. All this has hapened since I replaced the LP. . Also I have has to reset the APPS about once every month for the transmission hunting problem. Clears it right up but the last time it only lasted about a week.
I just wanted everyone to know what has been going on. Maybe one of yall has the answer. Or perhaps I already have the answer and its a dead VP #@$%!
I bought this truck used with 50k ish on it. It was awsome!! At about 70k I noticed that I had gone from around 25mpg to 16mpg no matter what. Towing, haulin A**, both at the same time or driving like a civilized person it was 16 mpg. I have had a strange surging sound since sept but only when starting cold and at all rpms untill warm. I lost the LP about a month ago 100 miles from home. Made it home and changed the pump now i have over 15 psi idle(autometer guage1-15psi) and no less than 11-12ish WOT. Befor the pump failer I had 10 idle ,3 WOT 4-6 cruising. Now I have had the deadpedal twice in one week and twice from a dead stop to WOT right out of the hole I have had it buck only once but hard enough that even with the auto I threw me forward and back so hard the seat belt bruised my chest. All this has hapened since I replaced the LP. . Also I have has to reset the APPS about once every month for the transmission hunting problem. Clears it right up but the last time it only lasted about a week.
I just wanted everyone to know what has been going on. Maybe one of yall has the answer. Or perhaps I already have the answer and its a dead VP #@$%!
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jgillott
TDR MEMBER
JamesSimpson said:
Yep, I hate to confirm it for you, but it sounds like your VP has been dying for quite some time now. I know it doesn't make you feel any better, but I've seen plenty of them go with very little mileage on them. I would predict that with a new VP, your truck will feel stronger and you will get some of that lost fuel mileage back.
Sounds like the VP was used to the lower pressures of the old lift pump. When the new pump was put on, you really started to notice the injector pump going out because the higher pressures all across the board. I just installed a new VP from industrial injection. Great people, I had a few questions on pulling the old one off and they answered on the spot no questions asked. At the same time I also installed a RASP from Olee Poole www.powerbypoole.com . Great guy also built me the whole kit and also answered some questions I had about the injector pump.
The senario you have with the lift pump failure is consistent with a failed VP44. What happens is this. The low side pressure that is supplied by the lift pump (13. 5psi) offsets the high side pressure. The pressures are separated by a steel diaphram. The seals that seal the different pressures are engineered to absorbe a . 5mm movement from pulsations inside the pump. If the low side pressure drops, then the movement will increase up to 2. 0mm. This movement beats the seals flat and some times breaks the steel diaphram. The steel diaphram has been updated and has been available for some time now. We always put the updated diaphram in every pump. But the seals can still be beat flat and start to leak, causing a failure. This senario is caused by the lift pump failing. Thanks, Brady 1-800-955-0476
BrettWilliams said:
That Was Great! A real explanation. What about too much fuel pressure on the low side? I have been running 22 to 24 psi at idle. I suspect the gauge but i just got dead pedal and p216 code. Could it be too much pressure?
OK thanx for the info everyone. I was pretty sure myself that this was going to mean a new VP44. I just wanted to make sure before I drop a grand on a new one.
Brady, Is 13. 5 psi what the vp44 likes. I have another post here with my ideal rig under "what to Do" basically Im looking to have something reliable that will drag 9 to 11k trailer at 70 in OD with no trouble. I was thinking that since I will have the vp out this might be the right time to ditch the LP and install a pusher at the tank. I was thinking that I should get a pump that would push about 30 psi and up by the vp have a regulator that will maintain 13. 5. Am I on the right track here or am I over doing it?
James
Brady, Is 13. 5 psi what the vp44 likes. I have another post here with my ideal rig under "what to Do" basically Im looking to have something reliable that will drag 9 to 11k trailer at 70 in OD with no trouble. I was thinking that since I will have the vp out this might be the right time to ditch the LP and install a pusher at the tank. I was thinking that I should get a pump that would push about 30 psi and up by the vp have a regulator that will maintain 13. 5. Am I on the right track here or am I over doing it?
James
Its has about 108500
Jim the VP44 needs 13. 5psi constantly at the inlet. It's ok to run a little higher like 15-18psi but anything over that will change the pump calibration out of spec. There is alot of different views about how to supply fuel to the VP44 but the end result sould be the same (13. 5psi) Thanks, Brady
Brady, what GREAT explanations, simple to the point. Could you comment about what is too low an input psi (ie too much deflection in the diaphram on the low side).
Those comments about 13. 5 constant input pressures is where I think the RASP shines. It can put out way over the 14 psi the bypass is set at, but the bypass, bypasses everything over 14 psi back to the tank (and that fuel has been through the fuel filter, ie recirculating clean fuel). My RASP will drop to 12 psi at idle, but runs right exactely at 14 psi above 1000 rpm. Since it is based on engine rpm, the more fuel volume the VP44 takes, the more pumped volume you have available.
If you really wanted to tweak the RASP bypass, just open it up and shim the spring to raise the pressures, or cut a little spring off to lower the pressures.
Bob Weis
Those comments about 13. 5 constant input pressures is where I think the RASP shines. It can put out way over the 14 psi the bypass is set at, but the bypass, bypasses everything over 14 psi back to the tank (and that fuel has been through the fuel filter, ie recirculating clean fuel). My RASP will drop to 12 psi at idle, but runs right exactely at 14 psi above 1000 rpm. Since it is based on engine rpm, the more fuel volume the VP44 takes, the more pumped volume you have available.
If you really wanted to tweak the RASP bypass, just open it up and shim the spring to raise the pressures, or cut a little spring off to lower the pressures.
Bob Weis
Bob sorry I did not get back to this page faster. You are right about the constant pressure that it seems you are getting. There are some nice products out there and the Rasp sounds like a nice product. We are a Fass distributor so we sell those, but good products that work is all we can hope for. Thanks
No problem Brett,
Could you comment about what lp pressures are too low psi?
Bypass valve systems work great to limit the high end psi, but do not do anything for the low end psi. What would you say from what y'all see is the bottom limit on the Vp44 input psi? Is it really 1 psi like the old "pumps, lines, and what not's" thread thought as long as there is sufficient volume? Where is this diaphram that should not deflect more than . 5mm located inside the Vp44? What is on each side of it, what exactely does it do anyway? Is it the weak link internal to the VP44? A high failure rate item?
Oh, and it is understood that you can deliver the VOLUME at these pressures so we don't get into a pressure vs volume discussion.
Lot's of questions I know, We (I) need a "show and tell" so we KNOW what we are doing.
Bob Weis
Ever thought about II having a cookout some weekend and we could all sit around and chat and look at the various stages of rebuild of VP44's, what is being replaced, and why, and what caused the dammage, what gets rebuilt, and why, can a person have a more complete rebuild than "normal"?, is that possible?, what would II recommend we do to our fuel systems (pressures, filters, free water seperators, maintenance) to keep the VP44's running, what is a NORMAL lifespan of a VP44 anyway? How often should a VP44 be rebuilt if everything is running fine? (100k, 200k, 300k?). How do boxes affect the VP44?, How does the Smarty (ECM reprogramming) effect the VP44? Basically "How do you take care of these **** things anyway?" Everyone throws out their ideas, but no one seems to really KNOW! We need one of y'all Bosch pump rebuilders to "invite" us (RSVP) over for burgers and beverages so we can really get down and see and ask questions.
I would drive up from Florida for an opportunity like that and bring the burgers and beverages.
Could you comment about what lp pressures are too low psi?
Bypass valve systems work great to limit the high end psi, but do not do anything for the low end psi. What would you say from what y'all see is the bottom limit on the Vp44 input psi? Is it really 1 psi like the old "pumps, lines, and what not's" thread thought as long as there is sufficient volume? Where is this diaphram that should not deflect more than . 5mm located inside the Vp44? What is on each side of it, what exactely does it do anyway? Is it the weak link internal to the VP44? A high failure rate item?
Oh, and it is understood that you can deliver the VOLUME at these pressures so we don't get into a pressure vs volume discussion.
Lot's of questions I know, We (I) need a "show and tell" so we KNOW what we are doing.
Bob Weis
Ever thought about II having a cookout some weekend and we could all sit around and chat and look at the various stages of rebuild of VP44's, what is being replaced, and why, and what caused the dammage, what gets rebuilt, and why, can a person have a more complete rebuild than "normal"?, is that possible?, what would II recommend we do to our fuel systems (pressures, filters, free water seperators, maintenance) to keep the VP44's running, what is a NORMAL lifespan of a VP44 anyway? How often should a VP44 be rebuilt if everything is running fine? (100k, 200k, 300k?). How do boxes affect the VP44?, How does the Smarty (ECM reprogramming) effect the VP44? Basically "How do you take care of these **** things anyway?" Everyone throws out their ideas, but no one seems to really KNOW! We need one of y'all Bosch pump rebuilders to "invite" us (RSVP) over for burgers and beverages so we can really get down and see and ask questions.
I would drive up from Florida for an opportunity like that and bring the burgers and beverages.
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Man, I sure agree with Bob - way too much guesswork and too few no-doubt-about-it facts from the guys who have their hands deep inside these pumps every day!
We spend lots of time and $$$ on varying shotgun approaches to head off VP-44 problems, when just maybe, a single focused issue is all it might take to cover the majority of normal failures.
We spend lots of time and $$$ on varying shotgun approaches to head off VP-44 problems, when just maybe, a single focused issue is all it might take to cover the majority of normal failures.
Bob,
Nice post. Where in Florida do you live? My parents live in Mulberry. We are headed to there place Thurs Feb 23 and leaving on the 26th.
Jeff
Nice post. Where in Florida do you live? My parents live in Mulberry. We are headed to there place Thurs Feb 23 and leaving on the 26th.
Jeff
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
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FREE!
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Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
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