Which Injectors?

[Tomeygun]

Now... to find a Stage2 CP3.

And rail cap.

plus my injectors.



Game on.

Thats what I'm talking ABOUT!!

Cause 3rd gens are going to stomp ALL OVER 12v and 2nd gens... .



(Slipping in flame suit now... . )

 

[Big MAK]

Unfortunately I'll be blowing my budget on the fuel upgrades for this year. Not enough time and money to get it ready for the track. No money for drive loops, track bars, transmission blankets, engine safety plates (damn super street), shutoffs, etc.



So will just be having fun on the dyno and the occassional drag race.

 

[RMalone]

Okay, so if a guy wants a truck at 550-600hp with excellent street manners should it be twins or stick with the 66class single I'm running now?

 

[Reb.B]

i've seen that 66 put down 575 time and time again with a bully dog and TST. It s a good turbo. As for driveability i'm running a 1300 cfm turbo, an exhaust housing everybody says is way too big and i get 22. 5 MPG at it pull cattle trailers around. The best set up is going to be the large variable turbo when a good reliable one comes out

 

[edgerat]

As for Ross from Dynomite, ... you have several inj for common rail and you will custome build inj for your customers, what they want is what they kit. Don sells a kit that he's has tried a million times then sells just that. No gripe intendeed. If I'm wrong then explain how. As for Mak with the twins, you are trying to shove 1200 cfm through a 400 cfm turbo. Do the math MAK, it takes too much work to make power. If you wanty twins to make power then the small turbo must be Very large and then it won't run until 90 MPH and if a set of twins run good then they are too small.

are you serious? If you want twins the only ones you can get will be too small and won't "run good"? What island are you from dude? Don just released his Flux 2 sticks not that long ago, he sells injectors and cams thats all he sells so I don't know what "kits" you are referring to that he sells that he has tried "a million times". DDP has two different injectors for a CR truck, 50hp and 90hp that's it, that is all that has proven to work in their numerous applications so that is what they build. In my opinion DDP doesn't sell something that immediately makes you go buy something else, I. E. Don M's Flux 2 sticks that require an upgraded CP3 pump, they sell stuff that works for the customer's needs or their current setup. Don't get me wrong if you want Lenny to build you a set of sticks that will make 150 hp and you can prove that you have the fuel to use them and get the gains stated then he will make them for you but not at the cost of you being unhappy. Some people don't like DDP because they have the annoying habit of telling the truth to their customers, even if they don't want to hear it sometimes, because they know that if you tell the truth and you deliver what you promise then your customers will come back and bring their friends. The most HP I can actually vouch for out of a DDP truck common rail is 565 with a set of 90hp sticks and a set of DDP twins. No upgraded CP3 and no crazy fueling just running a super chips downloader, 90hp sticks and an un-modified 95gph FASS pump. He doesn't have any stacks of multiple boxes or anything like. The hottest his truck has got is 1200 degrees, that is as hot as he can get his truck pulling a trailer full of quads and anything else he has tried so far. With that being said Lenny stands behind his products with a 30 day money back guarantee so if you don't like his injectors he will give you your money back he even puts a three year warranty on his injectors. They have an opacity meter and a dynojet 248HW and Lenny is willing to do a back to back test with anybodies injectors out there. The bottom line is this, if you want someone that is going to stand behind their product I personally don't think you can wrong with DynoMite Diesel's injectors or any of the products they sell, I can't speak for F1 diesels (Don M) products as I do not own any of them. If you want to make big power and be reliable and be able to drive the truck all day long at those kind of power levels I am in the camp that says you must run twins, there is no big voodoo to getting a set of twins to run good it just takes a little thought to get it done and you can have a package like the one above that makes 565 everyday of the week and twice on sunday and still not make 1350 on the pyro. I have yet to see the truck that runs a big single that can be daily driven without even a hint of headache. Sorry to run over your thread Mak but I hate to see people bash on a product of a company that tries to do right by every single person that they do business with from a simple downloader to a complete turnkey race truck. The 565hp truck will be at Diesel Power with my boy Bondo behind the wheel and hopefully everyone will get to see the kind of power and performance you and expect from DynoMite Diesel Performance and their owner Lenny Reed.

Isaac

P. S. I gained 75hp at the wheels after my DDP Stage 2 90hp nozzles. Nothing was done except the nozzles.

 

[driverno8]

Well said.

 

[Reb.B]

Edgerat, ... u're making a measely 565 and you ask what island i'm from. I just stated facts that i have seen. I think I've done a little more testing than you have. I make made 50% more power with my 40 HP inj than you with your 90 HP, lol. 565 HP is not something to brag about. I don't have time to get into inj. fights. I'll just state what i see, Don M. 40 HP inj run good and i Have seen 807 HP on a dyno jet. Twins run poorly on dynojet dynos unless they are really big and have alot of nos to get them going. Small-medium twins don't make the power on dynojets. This is what I've seen over and over. I never said Dynomite diesel inj were bad, i just said that i trusted Don's more on common rail. I've run over ten sets of twins, small, large, expensive and cheaqp and the result is always the same, ... should have run a big single.

 

[edgerat]

Reb,

Tell guys like Van Haisley, and Keith Locklier that twins don't make big power. What chemical are you using to make 800hp with 40hp injectors? Nitrous, methanol, propane? You don't have time for injector fights yet you run your mouth about how good your 40hp injectors are? Anyone can "test" sets of twins and if they have 0 knowledge of how turbos work then I can imagine they arrive at the conclusion that twins don't work. You have your head too far up your own keister to try and talk civil with so I am done for now. Oh and I am glad you saw 807hp ON A DYNO, try putting those numbers down somewhere else than on the rollers and then come talk to the people that don't dyno race.

P. S. the 565 truck doesnt belong to me it belongs to a customer of DDP, my truck is being built by DDP now.



Mak, if I were you I would call lenny at 360-794-7974 and talk to him about his injectors then call Don (I can't find a direct number for him) and talk to him about his injectors and just be honest with them about what you are trying to accomplish and then make your decision for yourself

 

[edgerat]

what's the deal with your dyno runs dude? nice peaky choppy power you are making there, I wouldn't be crowing from the rooftops if my dyno graphs looked like that. I would wager that my truck with sticks alone would outpull you on the track just because my truck is efficient enough to stay in the powerband as opposed to your lightswitch setup you have. Come to think of it, it looks like a SHARP rise in power right around where someone would hit the juice to get big numbers... . :-laf



#ad
:-laf

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Wow, I need to get in on the Twins secret about not making power then maybe I can go to a grand.



Remember before you start slamming Twins, there are people on the TDR that have been over 700 hp for several years... ... ... without N2O.



Jim

 

[Reb.B]

Okay guys, AGAIN, I'm not bashing anybody, ... or anything, I'm just throwing my thoughts into the pool here. Inj. thougts are going no where fast, but i still have some on the twins. As i said, that if u want to make the big power with twins, then you gotta go big. Okay Jim, what size turbo's are you running? Not trying to start any war here at all, just trying to get somewhere. Lets all remember this is a 3rd gen forum as well, and the topics are related to 3rd gens. Not trying to leave anybody out here, but 3rd gens have more of an ablility to spin a big turbo than 12v's because of the better combustion and mulitiple shots of fuel. So when a 12v needs twins to get moving a 3rd gen might not have too. So Jim, what size are they, big brother and b2?

 

[Big MAK]

Reb,

Mak, if I were you I would call lenny at 360-794-7974 and talk to him about his injectors then call Don (I can't find a direct number for him) and talk to him about his injectors and just be honest with them about what you are trying to accomplish and then make your decision for yourself

Exactly! That's why it doesn't 'pay' to get into brand wars. Just collecting info here folks!

 

[Big MAK]

Someone asked a question about big single vs. twins.



Generalities:



The downside of a big single is it's tough to spool up = more smoke and lag which is typically annoying for "daily driving".



Smaller turbos spool faster (but flow less) so the "ideal" setup is 2 turbos -- one large and one small/medium. Speaking in simple terms again -- each turbo is doing "half" the work to make the same amount of power so you get a lot of reliable power for little wear and tear.



So why do big turbos have an easier time making more power? What Reb's talking about -- flow. Less restriction. And spooling/lag isn't a problem on a dyno or in competition since you spool the turbo before you launch.



The twins will make as much or more power by producing more boost to make that power. BUT; more boost/higher pressure = more heat and the need for an engine block that can hold the boost w/o blowing a gasket (hence upgraded studs and head gaskets and fire rings).



Look at my setup now if you want to be about 500hp and over 1000tq reliably all day long every day and drive like a dream.



To get past that 500hp number I'll need more fuel from the delivery system (injectors; rail; high pressure pump; delivery psi).

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Yea I did jump into a 3rd gen form.



You asked about the Twins and HP. 1st set was a stock hx-35 with a 16 housing and external gate matched with a HT3B/26, later changed to a 18. 5 housing and that setup went to 674hp on #2 only, 706 with water at Piers's in Sept. 03'.



Second set was a PDR 40/16 with a stock B/B that went to 750 on #2, 793 on water in the fall of 04'.



Last set was the same B/B with a Phat Shaft 66 that went to 850 on #2 and 873 on water fall of 05'.



New Setup will be the same Phat Shaft 66 with a Hybrid on bottom and eventually a single or duel wastegates.



I really like those 3rd gens, wish I could afford one to play with.



Jim

 

[Floor It]

[Quote from edgerat]

If you want to make big power and be reliable and be able to drive the truck all day long at those kind of power levels I am in the camp that says you must run twins, there is no big voodoo to getting a set of twins to run good it just takes a little thought to get it done and you can have a package like the one above that makes 565 everyday of the week and twice on sunday and still not make 1350 on the pyro. I have yet to see the truck that runs a big single that can be daily driven without even a hint of headache.







TomeyGuns truck runs a single, is reliable, spools great and only gets to 1350 at WOT and makes 604hp. No headaces with his set-up.



John

 

[mcoleman]

whitesport600 from the DTR is also well over 565hp with just a Sledpuller 66 single and has no issues. Drives the truck daily and has even towed my truck through some serious hills without a wimper of an EGT problem.

 

[Reb.B]

Yes. Like i said, mine is at 703 with no NOS and it has a goose neck hitch and pulls cattle trailers around daily. Its even got one on John's pumps on in now and can really pull now. BUT, and this is a big BUT, ... the ability to run a big turbo is done much easier with a common rail. I've tried putting my turbo on several 12v's and its just sits there and smokes and turbo barks all day long. And thats why i like the common rail because of the abilty to spool turbos, because whoever can run the bigger turbo on the street is going to win(racing around town). Several reason why I'm not fond of twins are: its too hard to regulate boost both top end boost and middle range boost, especially when towing, ... . its less reliable, meanning that hoses are wanting to blow, intercoolers are wanting to blow and gaskets are wanting to blow. Now, back to regulating boost when towing. Say you have a fifth wheel camper and you are going up a long hill,. . with twins its very, very hard to keep the boost under 40 psi. Okay, your EGT's may be low, but what isn't, is your boost. As boost rises so does the temperature of your charged air. At 20 psi the air going through the intercooler is 210 degrees. At 40 psi boost the air is 420 degrees. Okay, so 420 degrees going through your intercooler is being radiated in front of your radiator, becuase the intercooler sits directly in front of your radiator. So driving up a hill with 20 to 40 psi boost is like driving in the midlle of Death Valley when its 210 to 420 degrees outside. Your engine water is going to get hot. SOOO, with a set of twins, EGT's are not the problem but engine water cooling is. What i have found on the common rail is that with a large single, ... if you can keep the rail pressures high enough, and get a complete burn the egt's will be in check. With Don's 40 inj and the TST on level five and 703 HP, the eng would never seeover 1250 degeres at WOT. Now with Don's 100 inj. this is a different story. Keeping rail pressure up is a little harder now.

Moral of the story is this, I'm not putting down owners that have bought twins, but I'm informing people in the market for twins. They cost a fortune, they make the head gasket and everything air related less reliable, and when the problems start happening this really discourages the owner. And my thought is that the owner should be happy with his truck. Thats all. These are my thoughts, take it for what its worth. There are lots of ways to make power. On the common rail, i spent my money on fuel and air, and not on the long block. This is what Joe D. did and he was very succesful.

 

[Matt S]

This is a very interesting discussion. I guess the only big single I've seen run is Tomeygun's on the dyno and that puts down a tremendous amount of black smoke. In So Cal that is huge no-no. I've seen AKRam run a quarter mile with the BD twins and nothing but a little haze at launch. How do you regulate smoke with a big single other than not stepping on it or turning down the power?

 

[BothellDiesel]

PULL PIN, DROP GRENADE AT FEET! there are more people watching than speaking on here.

 

[edgerat]

[Quote from edgerat]

If you want to make big power and be reliable and be able to drive the truck all day long at those kind of power levels I am in the camp that says you must run twins, there is no big voodoo to getting a set of twins to run good it just takes a little thought to get it done and you can have a package like the one above that makes 565 everyday of the week and twice on sunday and still not make 1350 on the pyro. I have yet to see the truck that runs a big single that can be daily driven without even a hint of headache.







TomeyGuns truck runs a single, is reliable, spools great and only gets to 1350 at WOT and makes 604hp. No headaces with his set-up.



John

John,

you have to read my reply to extract my point, "if you want to make big power all day long without headaches". Tommy's truck was a self-described nightmare for him to drive at 526hp every day. It smoked it was really peaky on the power and just wasn't fun for him to drive. He put in a set of injectors (F1) and one of your pumps and made 604 on the dyno. He states that he doesn't drive the truck around at that setting but at a setting that is estimated around 450hp. Bondo drives his truck around at 565hp everyday without any headaches. I use the example for motorcycle guys as looking at the difference between the powerband on a KX80 and a KX500. The 500 is much less violent when it hits the pipe but it pulls much harder and for longer once it gets there, just like twins. A big single is a peakier power like a small 2 stroke engine, once it hits the pipe all hell breaks loose and you are along for the ride. Are there big singles that work well for daily driving? Yes there are, 90% of them aren't any good for towing heavy loads over a long distance and even unloaded some of the big singles like a 66 surge for just daily driving. Are they as user friendly as a good set of twins, that don't have EGT issues, are safer to drive in low traction situations and don't surge? I don't think so. Maybe I am just naive but I actually drive my truck every day and I don't want the headache of a big single that surges and is peaky, I know that twins are more than twice as much money but I live by the do it right do it once attitude.

Isaac

Isaac