Which steering gear box??

[Buffalo]

STEVED,



I don't think you are making a mistake With the Defiant considering the use you will be giving it.



Even if it is not as strong as other products, it should be more than strong enough for what you will be needing.



Joe F.

 

[MVenditti]

Red-Head Steering Gears, Seattle WA - Red-Head Steering Gears Home

 

[seafish]

SEAFISH,

I have to agree with what you said about the Defiant product. The BD product, that I mentioned earlier, is a 'knock-off' of the SSI priduct, I believe. Probably strong but, I wonder about the strength of the trailing arms.

As I recall, BOB4X4 expressed some concern about flexing or warping of the Defiant product in extreme use. It is a flat piece of steel with one bend, for added strength, I believe. It looks pretty strong, to me. Nice build quality, also.

Joe F.

Joe, I believe that the primary job of ANY steering box support is to do just that--

Support the steering box sector shaft so that NOT ALL of the stress and torque from the movement of the weight of our very heavy CTD front ends is transferred directly to the steering box, thus protexting the SB from premature wear and damage.

That being said, many people feel, myself included, that there is ALSO an advantage to gaining more frame strenght but tying the frame together at yet another midway point. HOWEVER, unlike some people and Bob 4x4, I also believe that the frame should probably be able to flex a little, as designed, and this is actually where the Defiant may have a slight advantage. I apologize that I cannot find the links anymore, but there have been at least one and maybe two threads here on TDR that documented fatal damage to the steering box from even a light slide/side impact with a snow bank. If I remember right (don't quote me, but try to find the thread :-laf:-laf) the owner did indeed have a box beam SBS installed. He was NOT blaming the SBS for the damge, but it occurred to me then that some flex may well be OK, as long as the SBS does it's primary job of supprtoing the SB, which CLEARLY the Defiant SBS does extreemly well, given all of the positive feedback about improved handling that it DOES get.

As a final point (phew ), while the actual beam of the box beam type SBS is CLEARLY somewhat less flexible then the Defiant plate, the actual attachment tabs are the same gauge as Defiants--1/4" plate steel with 2 bolts, so it may well be argued that in reality it is just as flexible, point to point, as the Defiant. It would defintely be intersesting AND telling to simply place one end of each type of SBS in a vice, and then try to torque/twist the other end and see/feel what happens. One could even put a lever on it to get more leverage if one wanted to. I imagine that neither type would move or flex much at ALL!!!

Personally, I would not trade my Defiant for another type--it is simply well made and well designed, and I like the fact that Paul, while he may have been inspired by the SSI, did not simply clone it like others have done, but actaully designed what may well be a superior product. It certainly is EXTREMELY well made, well finished, well packaged, and covered by excellent customer service. and does the job it was designed to do extremely well.

Like I said before, what more could one want from a product??

 

[steved]

STEVED,



I don't think you are making a mistake With the Defiant considering the use you will be giving it.



Even if it is not as strong as other products, it should be more than strong enough for what you will be needing.



Joe F.

That was my thought as well...

 

[steved]

Support the steering box sector shaft so that NOT ALL of the stress and torque from the movement of the weight of our very heavy CTD front ends is transferred directly to the steering box, thus protecting the SB from premature wear and damage.

A steering box has a lot of stress on it, mainly because it has to support the leverage on the end of a shaft, and not between two bearings.



I have been looking at these braces for several years now, and now that my steering box is worn; it makes sense to me to add the brace to a new box to help prevent future wear.



I really can't complain though, almost 200k on the original box. The one thing that I have noticed is that it seems to be rapidly deteriorating... one day it was there, and now its really bad.

 

[seafish]

A steering box has a lot of stress on it, mainly because it has to support the leverage on the end of a shaft, and not between two bearings.



I have been looking at these braces for several years now, and now that my steering box is worn; it makes sense to me to add the brace to a new box to help prevent future wear.



I really can't complain though, almost 200k on the original box. The one thing that I have noticed is that it seems to be rapidly deteriorating... one day it was there, and now its really bad.

Yup... I am sure that any of them will help prevent early failure of the steering box. I put mine on at at 40k, so hopefully I am good for awhile!!

 

[steved]

Next question...



How hard is the box to install? I know I can pull it, not the issue.



How does one go about getting everything lined up upon install?? Should I just take it to the local shop? Seems that it would be fairly easy, but the small splines on the pitman arm look like they might make things problematic??

 

[JZellers]

Changing the box isn't that bad. The splines in the pitman arm and on the sector shaft on my Excursion were in a pattern so that the arm would only go on one way. I can't remember exactly with the steering shaft but I thought I just got it close and then I adjusted the linkage to get the steering wheel straight. Someone should be able to chime in on the Dodge boxes if there are any differences.

 

[steved]

I was wondering if the pitman arm was indexed...

I've been thinking more and more about it... seems to me I just need to park with the wheels straight ahead, remove the old box, find "center" on the new box, and install. Even the 2004 FSM is pretty vague.

I'm going to have it aligned once I get it installed.

 

[JWadford]

72000 miles on mine and it popps when i turn, not bad for turning 37s all its life along with all the abuse, i might try that red head steering gears along with a stabilizer.

 

[steved]

72000 miles on mine and it popps when i turn, not bad for turning 37s all its life along with all the abuse, i might try that red head steering gears along with a stabilizer.

Definitely not bad for 37s! Have you checked things like end links on the sway bar and such... never had a steering box pop before?

I received my box Monday... well packaged (all hand done, cut pieces of cardboard, paper, etc. ) and arrived in good condition. They definitely took care during packaging.

I only quickly pulled it out for a peek, the bag its in is full of PS fluid and I was in the house! I plan on pulling the old box one night next week, then reinstalling the Red-Head the following night. My steering brace should be here Friday (but I'm going away for the weekend, DOH!). Then hopefully I can get it in for an alignment before I leave for a month!

 

[JWadford]

Definitely not bad for 37s! Have you checked things like end links on the sway bar and such... never had a steering box pop before?



I received my box Monday... well packaged (all hand done, cut pieces of cardboard, paper, etc. ) and arrived in good condition. They definitely took care during packaging.



I only quickly pulled it out for a peek, the bag its in is full of PS fluid and I was in the house! I plan on pulling the old box one night next week, then reinstalling the Red-Head the following night. My steering brace should be here Friday (but I'm going away for the weekend, DOH!). Then hopefully I can get it in for an alignment before I leave for a month!

i am currently not running a sway bar, i just replaced the ball joints and upgraded to a t-style steering and it still popps and steers funny, doesnt return to center, plus the box is sloppy i would like to hear how your new box does with and without the stabilizer

 

[steved]

Well, got both installed... tremendous improvement! I can hit any bump and it tracks straight! No more wandering, tracks straight... the only thing I need to do is get the thing aligned (steering wheel is slightly off).

The most difficult thing was getting the hoses off... there is absolutely no room to work. I ended up pulling the inner fender, and then actually dropping the box out (supported by a strap) to break them off.

The pitman arm was on there... thankfully I have a OTC front-end service kit that contains a pitman arm puller... but even with that, I still had to apply a little heat.

Took a quart of ATF to refill... and I bought six quarts (the only local place that's has it is closed early today and all day tomorrow). So I'm going to change the transfercase back to ATF+4 (I have been running SynchroMax).

 

[seafish]

Whaddya think of the quality of the Defiant support??

 

[steved]

The Defiant bar looks well designed... it fit like a glove.



A couple things I noticed... the box can be slightly moved on its bolts (holes are larger than the bolts), and this can be used to better line the sector shaft to the support bearing.



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[brods]

How did everything work out after the alignment? Does the red head box have a bearing instead of a bushing to support the lower part of the pitman shaft? Anything you would do differently?

 

[CPittman]

Don't know if the Red Head Steering Gear box has a bearing instead of a bushing to support the sector shaft - Call Harvey (the owner) at Red Head and ask him about it. Red-Head Steering Gears, Seattle WA - Red-Head Steering Gears Home

I just put my new Red Head box in this last weekend. I've been chasing a wandering front end for a year... all new tie rod ends, new uppers / lowers, new hub assemblies and u-joints. I even added the BD SBS to stabilize the steering box and it didn't do the trick on an old sacked-out box.



The new Red Head with the SBS is a sweet combo for sure - I'm really happy with the truck's steering now.



OBTW, wrt the poster having problems with the hydraulic lines: remove the suction (larger) line from the steering gear AND remove the high pressure line up near the firewall (watch the relationship of the hard line to the box so you don't have to pull it two more times to get it right - don't ask me how I know... ), install the HP line on the box body and fish it back up top. Pin the box with one of the bolts and re-connect. This way you don't have to remove the wheel liner.



Kudos to Harvey at RHSG - very helpful and very encouraging - the world needs more Harvey's IMHO. Thanks for your advice Harvey!



I also used the Snap-On CJ119B puller - It was like taking a gun to a knife fight. I put some pressure on it, hit the side of the pitman arm with a 5 lb shop hammer, gave it some more torque - went to get another beer and when I got back under the truck - it was off - suh-weet!

 

[ddivinia]

The Defiant bar looks well designed... it fit like a glove.



A couple things I noticed... the box can be slightly moved on its bolts (holes are larger than the bolts), and this can be used to better line the sector shaft to the support bearing.



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What is that bracket doing again? Goes between the frame rails under the sway bar? How does the steering box attach to it?



Dodge dealer replaced my steering box and drag link under warranty around 80K miles. I had to get my wheels and tires balanced today due to some wobble in the front end.



Would this brace help keep my steering box from failing as soon?



I plan on keeping this 2005 3500 for a very long time. The front end seems to be a weak spot.



Thanks,

D.

 

[ddivinia]

FYI...



Bd Diesel Performance Steering Box Stabilizer Front View Photo





This article lays it out nicely. I must have one!



You guys are talking about the defiant one.



Genos has the BD one for $213. 75.



D.

 

[steved]

My next step is a steering shaft, followed by the updated steering linkage components. I have zero observable play in my linkage, but I think I have some in the steering shaft.



I also need to replace the shocks and the end links... pretty sure they are both worn out.