Which Torque Converter Rules?

[SClements]

MY 91 FINALLY HAS THE POWER IT DESERVES, AFTER HOUSING, PUMP TWEAK AND INJECTORS... . NOW WHAT CONVERTER WORKS BEST? I'VE TALKED TO BILL K. AT DTT AND JOE AT SUNCOAST, BOTH SOUND GOOD. WHAT HAS EVERYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED? SUGGESTIONS AND TIPS MUCH APPRECIATED. SEANE

 

[dezrat]

TC

I would go with DTT. I have had mine for 2000 miles now and I really love it. After 70000 miles with a BD low stall there is no comparison! I cannot speak about Suncoast but I know you can't go wrong with DTT. IMHO.

BOB

 

[RDusch]

DEZRAT,

What RPM does your DTT converter stall at??.

I've been running a B@D converter and still stalls out at 21-2200 rpm not real impressing, and not helping me out much, i'm ready for a change.

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

RDusch,



At what level of boost are you achieving stall. With our TC's the stall speed is 2100@36lbs. of boost. We believe that the only way to do a stall test is under full boost. We have tested several other manufactures with the same test and have yet to see one under 2800.



Stefan Kondolay

Diesel Transmission Technology

 

[Dieselnerd]

It's obvious you never tested a Goerend TC. Mine stalls at about 2100 under full boost.

 

[Midnite]

Originally posted by Dieselnerd

It's obvious you never tested a Goerend TC. Mine stalls at about 2100 under full boost.

Hmmm... as I read Stefan's post, his wording seemed to me to imply competitors' torque converters testing out at 2800 rpm stall at 36psi boost. Nowhere in his post did I see any mention of 2800 rpm stall at Dieselnerd's full boost.



Of course, if you're getting 36psi or greater at max boost, Dieselnerd, then you do have a good point. If not, then perhaps a less inflammatory post might have been in order.



Just a friendly suggestion--I've seen tons of great things posted here (and many of those by yourself!), but the torque converter discussions seem to be unnecessarily hot.



Mike

 

[boatpuller]

I agree with dezrat, I would go(actually will go) with DTT when the time comes.



I also agree with Midnite, everytime there is a discussion about TCs or auto trans it seems like Dieselnerd has to stir the pot with the Kondalays and when they respond to his accusations(and in my opinion,the thread starts to get interesting) the moderators shut the thread down.





Dieselnerd, I would like to know at how much boost your converter is stalling at 2100RPM, if your getting that stallspeed with more than 36pounds of boost than maybe I need to start thinking differently about which converter to buy when the time comes.



Thanks,

Caleb

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Hey Guys ,



This information that dieselnerd posted is actually fairly accurate.



What you see here is 2 trucks stalling out here at 2100rpms,



While i do not advocate stall tests unless you know what you are doing and what the concequences are , the information provided by Dieselnerd is actually very useful .



Ok, by his own words Dieselnerd's own truck stalls out at 2100rpms, the testing I have done with milled stators and 230 hp trucks show the tc stalls out at approx. 2200 rpms, so he is close , similar to the Suncoast , Dunrite, BD, Protorque, test results.



However the truck stefan is talking at makes 400 hp,measured WITHOUT LOCK UP< its actually a little more, for arguement sake lets sake 400hp.



This 400hp truck stalls out at 2100 rpms, what does that tell you.



If you were to take Dieselnerds same converter and put in my truck it would stall out well past 2800rpms, i would say it would be around 3100 rpms. Remember he has about 600 ft lbs of torque, we have about 1200 ft lbs of torque.



Because the higher the hp, the higher the stall.



Putting a milled stator in a first generation truck that has no lock up will actually be pretty much useless.



Since we can infer from Dieselnerds post that his stall speed is 2100 with 230hp, with lock up, we know that without lock up it will be about 185hp.

Remember the dyno testing done on the tst plates is done with the tc locked up.



Since 1st generation trucks dont have lock up, if they are dynoing at 210 or 220 they are actually making more power than Dieselnerd, because when they dyno test their horse power is actually being measured in fluid coupling.





Now , if you take a 230 hp, first generation truck and install the a milled stator tc like Dieselnerds, the 2100 stall speed that he was getting now becomes a 2400 stall speed making it useless to guy with a first generation truck that has no lock up to fall back on.



2400 stall in a first generation truck says it all, its way past your peak torque.

 

[Dieselnerd]

I don't disagree with you on most of your points Bill. My truck came out with 240HP at the wheels with the TC locked up on Dave G's Dyno. I'm not sure however, how you can say I have a stall speed of 2100 while locked up, the very fact that it's in stall mode precludes lockup since it can't be slipping at its stall speed and be locked up at the same time. With brakes on and flooring it for a short while it goes up to 2100 RPM with a boost of 27# (used to be 32 but I lowered it since I didn't need that much air for my mild upgrade) and of course it isn't locked up at that time. Same on the highway, with my TC unlock switch UNLOCKED, I can floor it and it runs up to 2100 and the truck moves out fast. Other than that I agree totally with you, if I had 400 or more HP I bet my stall speed would be at redline too. My TC is not and never was made for that kind of power. Dave G. also says his TC is for the average guy, not for the one making more than 350HP. Once again, I was only stating my TC stalls at 2100 on MY TRUCK. I think we are talking apples and oranges since you are talking 400HP. If the post from Stefan had said you never tested one that didn't stall at less than 2800 with 400HP that would have been a whole different story. I know mine would also stall that high or higher. When we speak stall in the future let's also include HP so we all are on the same page. As you well know, boost is not always a good indicator of HP since I can turn mine up to 36# and it would reduce my power without more fuel.

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

If I read Bill's response correctly, Dieselnerds truck dynoed at 230-240 HP with the TC locked up. This same 230-240 HP produced a stall speed of 2100 rpm with Dieselnerd's TC. Bill then said, if you dynoed Dieselnerd's truck with the TC unlocked (1st gen trucks have no lockup) you would see about 185 HP at the rear wheels.

 

[Dieselnerd]

I wish I had run it on the dyno unlocked. It would be interesting to see if the HP dropped as low as 185. At the time I was only interested in my rear wheel HP to find out if I was getting the full power advertised by TST. As it turned out, it was better than advertised but I have also heard that a lot of the 230 TST kits dyno at 240 or so. Maybe next time I am at Dave's shop I can try it unlocked and post the results.

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Stator Pics

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Factory Stator vs. Milled Stator



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DTT Stator vs. Factory Stator



The rest of this post we be done later.