While, Ford ruler of the towing world!

[y-knot]

I know Ford is suppose to be a bad thing here, and we are encouraged to not tout their strong points. But... they can legally kick the Dodge butt when it comes to towing limits, 19,200lbs is a heck of alot of capacity. The newest Dodge 2005 model is only rated at 16,300lbs. That is a big difference, especially if you are in the towing business. That could mean alot more money for the same distance traveled. I do not tow for a living, but I can see why some would use the Ford/Power Stroke combination to do it. Just please don't tell me about how they would be sitting on the side of the road dead, with engine troubles. That story is getting old very fast, they seem to have the engine troubles behind them now. I live in a very busy part of town, with major interstates running trough it in several areas. I have never seen a Ford broken down on the side of the road, loaded or empty.

Don't get all bent out of shape, the question is how do they do it? They both have 6-speed manuals , Dodge has an old 4-speed auto while they have a newer 5-speed auto, but what allows them to out pull the Dodge/Cummins combo by 2,900lbs? I can remember not too long ago the towing limit for the Dodge/Cummins combo was right at 12,000lbs. The Dodge has gained in the area, but what allows them to do what we can not? It doesn't sound like a whole lot, but for a contractor or anyone that uses their truck for work, it is alot. And for the group that owns large trailers like fifth wheels and such, it very well could be an issue, many of the larger trailers and toy boxes are over what the Dodge can legally handle. Is their transmissions that good? Do they have the problems we have with ours? Is their running gear that much better? What is it that you feel makes the Ford/PS combo capable of towing so much more?

Please, Do not turn this post into a bash the other brand shambles. This is not an attack on anybody, any brand or any engine. I would just like too know form all of you, what gives the Ford trucks the ability to tow over 19,000lbs. Yes I know many out their tow higher payloads then this, but you also do not do it with Dodge's blessing, and you sure don't do it legally. That's not the question, so don't make it part of the answer, Thanks

 

[PJereb]

Better automatic transmission..... and some pencil whipping.



Any manufacturer can rate any vehicle for any purpose as long as they are willing to accept the liability. I think that Ford is just up rating their pickups to capture more of the market.

 

[caryain]

I have to agree with PJereb. Pencil whip the numbers. Just look at the Nissan Titan tow rating... 9,500 lb. I have a friend who owns one and I have seen it up close. There is no way I would ever try and pull 9,500 lbs with a 1/2 ton pickup. Sure, it might pull it but, what about stopping? even with trailer brakes. I'm not ragging on Nissan. I too am curious how Ford and other manufacturers can come up with some pretty unbelievable numbers. It's all about selling more units. Just tell the public what they want to hear and they will think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Just my . 02

 

[RBratby]

i watched a ford commercial today on the hd truck. in small writing on the bottom of the screen it said max towing 13,200 with a f350 2 wheel drive. it is the commercial with it towing 30 refers.

 

[WyattEarp]

I agree with caryain on that, i mean that is alot of weight for a truck especially when you try and stop that amount all at one time. I know they have talked about their new body frame maybe that has something to do with it im not sure, It was either here or on the horsepower tv that i saw the new frame for the '05 fords and it didn't look any better than what we have or under the older model fords with the powerstroke. I agree more hp and torq contributes to the pulling, but as for stopping NAH!! i don't think so of course i might be out there by myself on that one.

The M35 i have now that was built for towing 20,000lbs and it has the ability to stop such a load(if i can ever find a replacement engine i will find out) hint hint.

 

[DIESELMAN]

So the Truck Trend Article says ...



Curb Weight - 7,084

Max GCWR - 23,500

Max Towing Capacity 17,000



7,084 + 17,000 = 24,084 which is 584 pounds over, without a driver or fuel.



23,500 - 7084 = 16416 is the real towing capacity, passengers and fuel deduct from this doesn't it??

 

[KBertetto]

I believe it's for the sales pitch and to make the commercials. I will gladly outpull any stock powerstroke with whatever weight they want to pull. I can say this as my best friend has a 2004 6. 0, and he can't hang with me in the mountains, even though his trailer is a ton less. Numbers mean nothing. JMHO



Bert

 

[amsoilman]

So the Truck Trend Article says ...



Curb Weight - 7,084

Max GCWR - 23,500

Max Towing Capacity 17,000



7,084 + 17,000 = 24,084 which is 584 pounds over, without a driver or fuel.



23,500 - 7084 = 16416 is the real towing capacity, passengers and fuel deduct from this doesn't it??

I agree!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[TCDiesel]

In Minnesota it is legal to be 30,000 with truck and trailer,With bridge Laws,What are bridge laws you are allow to carry more weight with length and tire contact surface area {600 psi} Max I believe is the legal standard. In Mn if your stop by the Commercial Enforcement they will open the Door look at the GVW ,If it say 12k and you license it for 12K you are allow 10% excess 1200 Lbs total 13,200,Now if you trailer is a Txi-axle with three axles rated 6000 and you license it for 18K In order to get the allowable 10% your rear axle of the power unit and the first alxe of the trailer Must be a min of 12 feet TDC on both axles,Now if the truck GVW is 12k and you are 11,800 you can add the 10% to the unit being pulled, with out exceeding 600 psi ground pressure.

Ford seems to be more commercial friendly than Dodge,Ford dealer put more effort in servicing their commerical owners, In this area most Dodge Dealers mistreat their commerical owner,Example:The power steering unit does not work on you work truck, You call the dodge dealer service Dept, This your answer ,Lets See ya I have a opening next week at 3:00 pm Friday to look at it. Ford wants a greater share of the of the commercial Market that Dodge has left available to them.

 

[XJSuperman]

Someone above mentioned the refrigerator commercials. The 2wd F-350 dually being rated at only 13,200 lbs towing. If memory serves this was the actual number (for this configuration) up to the newest iteration of the 6. 0 powersmoke... how on earth did they jump 6,000 lbs in towing capacity?



Also... how can it legally be 19,200 lbs... no matter what ford 'says'. As far as numbers go it would have to be a dually that can tow 19,200 lbs. Add the weight of the truck and you are going to go over 26,000 lbs QUICK. Isn;t 26,000 lbs the cutoff for the next class of trucks... ? I'm wondering if the commercial or where ever this info came from is for those trucks (which ford sells) and NOT a 1 ton.



I actually don;t care if the new dodge, ford or chebbie can out tow mine... but I do think this is BS.

 

[rbattelle]

Also... how can it legally be 19,200 lbs... no matter what ford 'says'. As far as numbers go it would have to be a dually that can tow 19,200 lbs. Add the weight of the truck and you are going to go over 26,000 lbs QUICK. Isn;t 26,000 lbs the cutoff for the next class of trucks... ? I'm wondering if the commercial or where ever this info came from is for those trucks (which ford sells) and NOT a 1 ton.

I agree with this reasoning... something a little fishy is going on here. A truck that can legally tow 19200 without a CDL would have to weigh in at 6800 lb.



A little research on Ford's website indicates that with their new "TowBoss" package you can get a GCWR of 26000 lb. Personally, I think that is awesome and something Dodge should have done in '04 as well... just max it out: give us the highest GCWR allowed without a CDL. As I suspected, that GCWR is ONLY for a F350 DRW Regular cab 4x2 with a special 4. 3 rear axle ratio. If you want a 4. 10 axle, your GCWR drops to 23500 (what's Dodge's?), and with a 3. 73 ratio you fall to 23000 GCWR.



So that's what's going on here: they are offering a very very special edition truck that's very light and includes a trailer brake controller to protect fools from trying to tow that kind of load without trailer brakes.



More power to 'em! I think Dodge and Chevy need to step up next and offer a quad-cab 4x4 dually with 26000 GCWR.



Read the facts straight from the Ford site!



-Ryan

 

[klenger]

What does requiring a CDL have to do with GCWR? As far as I know, there is no law preventing someone with a CDL from operating a pick-up truck. In the aviation business, we consider something like GCWR as a certification requirement and requiring a CDL as an operational requirement. In any case, I agree that the Ford numbers are useless because you would max out the GVWR long before you could max out the GCWR. Why is Ford trying to get those numbers from a 350 when they have a 450 and 550 anyway?

 

[Farmall Hauler]

It would be interesting to know, what a 05 Dodge 3500 DRW 4x2 could tow with 4. 30 gears. But, then again, maybe it would not help us as much as they do the Ford, because of the low rev line of the Cummins!?

 

[pwerwagn]

Ive seen those commercials. I never paid attention to close, but does it actually say that the 19,xxx tow capacity is for a f350, or are they using the #'s from an f450 or f550 and just showing us a f350?

Just a thought.

 

[curatchko]

I posted this in the general diesel forum. AINT NO WAY we can compete with that Ford.



I drove for 1500 miles this weekend with an 05 Ford, 5 speed auto.



... towing a 10,000 pound trailer.



All I can say is that it don't matter who says what about the 6 liter, or anything else about a Ford. The 05 ford PSD powertrain outclasses our dodge/cummins LIGHTYEARS!!!!



I'm pretty much speechless. Unbelievable power. That Ford had 50 miles on it when I started towing with it this weekend and after 1500 miles it's even better. Hooked up to the 10k trailer, that sucker would give my truck a run EMPTY. The acceleration from a stop puts you hard in the back of the seat with the trailer!!!!



That 5 speed shift is so perfect that I don't think there is any room for improvement. IT'S PERFECT.



If I were buying a new truck right now, it would be the Ford without a second thought. And I hate Fords.



The interior is nice... . but not as tight as our Dodges. The chassis is not as stiff as ours either. Front coil springs..... they're okay. Also not as tight as ours. The front end is sloppy and it did have a shimmy at about 75mph... felt through the steering wheel.

 

[boonsur]

I didn't catch all the numbers, but I wonder how much heavier the Dodge/Cummins is, which would reduce the tow rating/allowance.



The argument can certainly be made that the Dodge will still "out-pull" it, at any weight. However, that extra rating would help in a courtroom in the event of an accident, if you happened to have an issue pulling something that would be illegal in the Dodge, but legal in the Ford. I figure that's a pretty small window to worry about. I'm always under, but if I go over, then it'd probably be quite a bit over.

 

[y-knot]

I don't care how they twist the numbers, it they certify that the truck can in fact tow 19,200lbs then great I am legally allowed to tow that weight. Yes people can and do tow more then the rated amount with their Dodge's, but they are also Ill-Legal under the rules of the Law.

I also find it funny when people say they would out pull any STOCK ford with their modified Dodge, how fair is that? Shouldn't it be STOCK Dodge against STOCK Ford? Just a thought.

This new '05 Ford is the best truck Ford has ever released, it is also the best truck available to the American public. It rides better, pulls better , takes off better and looks better then anything else available (the looks part is my opinion and is very subjective, I know). I feel happy for Ford, they have had a rough two years and I think they deserve the benefits of a good truck review and the profits it will bring in.

I hope this will pry Dodge off their egotistical azz and build a better truck to stick the Cummins into. Dodge has been lame in their attempts lately, they need a new automatic and they need to up-date their offering of options. The towing package should include a Class IV hitch with the built in brake controller. They should also be offering a factory Exhaust brake and up-dated interior options as well. I Think Cummins deserves as better truck to stick their engine into, then what Dodge is currently offering. I suppose Cummins will hold off on any improvements to their current engine until the 2006 low sulfur fuel arrives.

 

[KBertetto]

I also find it funny when people say they would out pull any STOCK ford with their modified Dodge, how fair is that? Shouldn't it be STOCK Dodge against STOCK Ford? Just a thought.

If that was aimed at me, my truck is stock, and it will not only outpull an 04 PSD but it simply embarrasses it. Read my original post, look at my sig. The only engine mod (if you can call it that) is an AFE. However, I don't know about an 05 as I've never been in one. But I can't see how it can be lightyears better than an 04. As far as saying Dodge has been lame in their attempts to build a better truck is simply crazy. I agree on the auto transmission side of the house, they are way behind... not even on the same map as Ford. But darn near everything else I feel is much better than Ford. Here are just a few of my opinions:



Better steering, brakes, sound system, manual trans, larger exhaust, no egr, exhaust brake ready from the factory (manual), better ride, better low end grunt, better engine... I can go on.



y-knot, I've read a lot of your posts and I must say you seem to be very well informed. But you also have a habit of desparaging the Dodge product and continuously praising the Ford. Why don't you just go get one and be done with it?

 

[Bob V]

Just to put in my 2 cents, I think that the high raiting has more to do with the integrated brake controller than any think else. Just think, the trucks computers controlling the trailer brakes, going to do a much better job than an add on controller would do.

 

[y-knot]

I don't care which brand has the best features, I just tell it like i see it. Every brand has certain items that stick out in the crowd. For Dodge it is the Cummins, not for it's power or for it's torque, for it's reliability and based on a record that extends back to 1989 for the light trucks and beyond that for the engine alone. Reliability is the Cummins string point, they are known to just keep going, day after day. And because of that strong initial build, they can be modified to produce many times more then their rated horse power. That is Cummins's strong selling point, and if they ever had to go Thur a two year spell with engine problems like Ford and the Power Stroke had to, their strongest selling point would be washed away. They would suffer damages worse then Ford did, because reliability is what Cummins is all about. Hopefully they will never have to endure such a bad twist of luck. I am totally happy with my Dodge/Cummins powered truck, it has never let me down and I love it to death. But, that does not stop me from being able to admire certain efforts of other truck manufacturers. I am a Dodge fan, but I am not blind. I write my post with the hope that those with Dodge will wake-up and start building the truck I know they can build. I have driven Chevrolet's, Ford's, Hummer's and Dodge's, they are all the same and different at the same time. Chevrolet is a very plush, and smooth riding truck. But it is not for me, I do not like the low rider feel, nor do I like the Big Boat feel while riding in them. They have comfortable seats, and I suppose the ON-Star is nice for some. Many, on this site can not bring them selfs to say anything positive about Ford or Chevy, where I have no problems. I do not see it as competition, nor do I need to Justify my purchases. I know who I am, and I am fine with that. Right now Ford with their '05 super duty pick-up, has a great truck to offer. I am not in the market for a replacement, so I could care less who has the most to offer and who does not. I test drive cars and trucks as often as most wash their feet, I like to see what happening and who has what. Too me ,the Ford offers a great riding, smooth shifting, modern looking truck. One that has made several major changes to the good and has obviously been influenced by what the owners would have liked to see in a new Ford pick-up truck. The changes they made were smart and meaning ones, combine that with a better running diesel engine, and you have a candidate for best truck of the year. Only time will tell if Ford does truly have the engine problems behind them, I nor anyone else right now knows, but I sure hope so.