Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) White smokey starts

[Cooker]

Sorry I do not have a pic. They are a real PIA to get at. Both behind the fuel filter at the back of the block near the firewall and the other end in near the transmission bellhousing.



Be sure to get diesel rated hose, not just standard fuel line. You will have to cut off the original clamps and just use hose clamps for the reinstallation.

 

[JGheen]

Maybe it's a '98 12v thing, but as I was changing my fuel filter last night, I found the supply and return lines and they were hard lines of, apparently the same size all the way to the lift pump. They have a rubber sleeve on them as the go past the bellhousing up to the lift pump. No clamps, and I squeezed the line all the way up to the pump and it was hard lined up to it, again with a rubber sleeve on each line protecting it up to the pump. I bought some 5/16" fuel line from the local truck parts store ($1 for 2') and happen to have about 2' of 3/8" fuel line in the tool box. So I was all ready to replace the lines until my findings... ... . anyone have these similar lines and have had to replace them at all?? Also, does the big 3/4" short line from the fuel prefilter/heater to the lift pump ever wear out and need replacing?



BTW, since we are this subject, how come my local Cummins dealer(not Dodge dealer) told me that the fuel pre-filter/heater is a Dodge/Chrystler part? I thought it was a Cummins part being it is part of the fuel delivery system. I asked them for the filter screen kit and they said I had to go to the stealership to get that part. Friggin' $25 for a little screen and 2 o-rings! Damn, I hate the dealership, just raping people left and right for parts.

 

[Cooker]

Originally posted by JGheen

BTW, since we are this subject, how come my local Cummins dealer(not Dodge dealer) told me that the fuel pre-filter/heater is a Dodge/Chrystler part? I thought it was a Cummins part being it is part of the fuel delivery system. I asked them for the filter screen kit and they said I had to go to the stealership to get that part. Friggin' $25 for a little screen and 2 o-rings! Damn, I hate the dealership, just raping people left and right for parts.

They are Fleetguard parts and can be purchased at a Cummins dealer. What I have found is most Cummins dealers are not well versed on parts for the Dodge applications and they do not care to do the research to look them up. If you have the correct part number with you (most can be found here on the TDR) and give that to the parts guy at the Cummins dealer they will probably be more willing to help you.



If you have not already purchased the prefilter screen kit do a search on here for the right PN, or I can dig it up from a past invoice when I have more time, and go back to the Cummins dealer with that. The kit cost about $8 from Cummins.

 

[Andy Redmond]

JGheen:



98 12v's only have a short rubber return line behind the Fuel water sep. /fuel filter. An 8" piece of SAE 30r7 rated

5/16" id fuel line will fix you up. I remove the filter base from the engine/intake for easy access.



94-97's had the longer return and supply lines. .



Your setup has the "quick" connect for the supply.



The part numbers I've posted in the past are fleetguard, any Cummins place s/b able to do something with these. .



I had recently had a parts specialist frustrated (Cummins). He was arguing with me that 20 rather than 26 heads bolts are on a 6BTA5. 9. We walked out to the core bank and I removed valve cover, often their literature forgets the long bolts that hold the rockers/rocker towers to the head. The one day I didn't take my part numbers with me. .



Good luck

Andy

 

[JGheen]

Originally posted by Andy Redmond

JGheen:



98 12v's only have a short rubber return line behind the Fuel water sep. /fuel filter. An 8" piece of SAE 30r7 rated

5/16" id fuel line will fix you up. I remove the filter base from the engine/intake for easy access.







Your setup has the "quick" connect for the supply.







Good luck

Andy

Andy,

so would you recommend replacing that return line after every couple of years? If the line is not rated for fuel, will the diesel fuel corrode it or something??



Also, the "quick" connect for the supply line, is that something that is only available on the '98 12v's? Does it pose a problem at any time that you have heard of??

 

[Andy Redmond]

If you buy some high dollar marine/silicone hose its a forget about it deal. I'm starting to change them out on 98 12v's lately. . so I think 5-7 years is an ok life span.



Your quick connect design is convenient and reliable.



Good luck

Andy

 

[JGheen]

Thanks Andy,



I'll have to take a second look at the condition of my return line tonite after the work day is over.





Joe

 

[Cooker]

Originally posted by JGheen

I'll have to take a second look at the condition of my return line tonite after the work day is over.

The visible appearance of a rubber line is not always an accurate way to deterine the condition of the line. Quite often times they will look ok and not leak but still have rotted enough to suck a small amount of air. If your truck is not starting hard and you are not having any issues I would not be too worried about it at this time.

 

[JGheen]

Originally posted by Cooker

The visible appearance of a rubber line is not always an accurate way to deterine the condition of the line. Quite often times they will look ok and not leak but still have rotted enough to suck a small amount of air. If your truck is not starting hard and you are not having any issues I would not be too worried about it at this time.

Cooker,



What do you consider a hard start?? Mine starts kind of hard, in the way of it will take a few extra cranks to fire up unless I press the go pedal a bit and it fire's right up. It has only done this since I installed my 3k gsk, but before I did that mod, it would start instantly. Now, like I said, in order to get it to fire up instantly, I have to give it a little throttle, but if I just crank with no throttle, it takes like 3-4 complete cranks, then it fires. I don't think this would be due to the return line rotting, would it, since it conicidentally started doing this ever since I installed the 3gsk?? What do ya think? And what would be a good name to call the 5/16 id line so I can find some good fuel line for a replacement..... just marine heavy duty diesel fuel line??

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Cooker]

Joe,

The starting you describe is unrelated to the rubber lines. When looking for line just ask for SAE 30r7 rated line as referenced by Andy. If I am not mistaken I think many guys have found it at a marine shop and just asked for diesel rated marine fuel line.

 

[JGheen]

Thank, Cooker



I thought the starting had nothing to do with the fuel lines but I prefer to ask for opinions. Any idea what would cause that legthened cranking to start with no throttle help?? What would you consider a hard start then that would lead me to believe it is caused by the return line?

I live near a couple of boat shops, I'll have to call and ask them if they carry that style of fuel line.

Thanks again, Joe

 

[JGheen]

Just to mention something I noticed last night about my fuel supply and return lines... ..... both are the "quick connect" type! I thought Mr. Andy Redmond would be specially interested to hear this. This might be something that is applied to all the '98 trucks but I just thought I would let everyone know. Now my question is, how many of you guys have seen the quick connect type of fuel hose go bad and corrode enough to leak??

 

[PKemp]

Let me interrupt the fuel line stuff for a minute and ask about fuel pressure. I've got a '95, 3500, 118k miles and I need to know how to check the fuel pressure out of the lift (fuel) pump going to the injector pump. And what kind of tools/gauges/hoses are needed. And what the pressure should be.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...



By the way, I live on the MS Gulf Coast and have found that any marine shop carries the CG rated marine diesel fuel lines your talking about. May I suggest though that you use the stainless steel ring clamps with a bolt type head you can use a nut driver on instead of a screwdriver. That should pretty much last the rest of your trucks lifespan. The body will fall off first.

 

[JGheen]

Originally posted by PKemp

Let me interrupt the fuel line stuff for a minute and ask about fuel pressure. I've got a '95, 3500, 118k miles and I need to know how to check the fuel pressure out of the lift (fuel) pump going to the injector pump. And what kind of tools/gauges/hoses are needed. And what the pressure should be.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

To check fuel pressure, you need a special fuel pressure gauge and some special fittings that allow you to tap the gauge into the banjo fitting on top of the fuel filter housing. I just recieved my Dodge service manual from Chrystler the other day and have yet to get to the fuel pressure checking section. I did take a galnce at it and it has very good decriptions, pics and part #'s for the proper fuel pressure checking methods. What a great manual!! I still can't get over how thick it is, like a damn phone book!! Too bad it costs friggin' $90! BUt it's a Chrystler product and like all their other stuff, way too over priced.

 

[PKemp]

How did you get your manual? Mail, Internet, dealer?

 

[Andy Redmond]

Mr. Gheen:



Put your hand in between the fuel filter and the back of the injection pump underneath the intake manifold. Near the back of the injection pump is the steel return line that attaches at the overflow valve and runs between the injection pump and the tappet cover. The pump return lines ends near the back of the pump and sweeps upward slightly. You will find a short length of 5/16 rubber hose with steel clamps on either end that goes from the end of the injection pump return line to the "hard return lines" you have previously mentioned.



My reason for suggesting the removal of the fuel water seperator was that it makes for very easy access and is easily changed with temporary access space you have created. I've changed several this month and I've not seen a 94-98 12 v (Dodge application) without some bit of flexible 5/16 rubber hose in the return plumbing. I'll try to think to charge the batteries in the digital camera and get you a photo next time I change one or R&R a pump on a 98.



PKemp:



The most inexpensive gauge is too use a boost gauge and order the adapter from TST (male m6*1. 0 to 1/8 female pipe). This threads into the bleed screw on the output of the fuel filter. 18-20 psi at idle is great and at least 20+ under load or rated rpm. It will be hard to read as the pulses will rattle the poor little needle on the gauge. I have a liquid filled gauge that shows smooth readings.



If you have a 97-98 12v98-9924v. you can use a male schrater (sp) fitting (Parker hose #AUI2 ??), that will fit the "pipe plug" that resides in the top of the housing. Then plumb this up to your temporary gauge.



I wouldn't use any arrangement that allows for fuel inside the cab (permanent mounting). Use an isolator and an elec. gauge etc.



Good luck

Andy

 

[PKemp]

Thanks, got it. I think I know where I can get a liquid filled gauge to buffer the pulses.

 

[JGheen]

Originally posted by Andy Redmond

Mr. Gheen:



Put your hand in between the fuel filter and the back of the injection pump underneath the intake manifold. Near the back of the injection pump is the steel return line that attaches at the overflow valve and runs between the injection pump and the tappet cover. The pump return lines ends near the back of the pump and sweeps upward slightly. You will find a short length of 5/16 rubber hose with steel clamps on either end that goes from the end of the injection pump return line to the "hard return lines" you have previously mentioned.



My reason for suggesting the removal of the fuel water seperator was that it makes for very easy access and is easily changed with temporary access space you have created. I've changed several this month and I've not seen a 94-98 12 v (Dodge application) without some bit of flexible 5/16 rubber hose in the return plumbing. I'll try to think to charge the batteries in the digital camera and get you a photo next time I change one or R&R a pump on a 98.





Andy

Well, I'll check it out but just thinking about what that area looks like, I don't believe I have ever seen a short piece of hose. I'll really get in there and look with a flash light and let you know what I find.



Joe

 

[Cooker]

Originally posted by PKemp

Thanks, got it. I think I know where I can get a liquid filled gauge to buffer the pulses.

I bought my liquid filled gauge from Grainger for less than $10 and it works great. Since it is not something I leave permanently installed on the truck it did not have to be anything special.

 

[JGheen]

Mr. Redmond,



Well, I did some extensive searching high and low and all around the pump and filter housing and could not find any 5/16" hose anywhere. I followed the overflow valve return line behind the injection pump and got a mirror for looking behind the filter housing and the hard line just went straight back behind the filter housing and on down back to the tank. No short piece of hose anywhere. Did they do away with this hose on the early '98 12v's or something?



Joe