Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Who could Use A Bulletproof Automatic?

[HVAC]

Hello all! Some of you may know about my drivetrain problems of late. I have a decision to make regarding a transmission next. Altough I never would have thought it possible, I am considering an automatic #ad


So here's the deal, Randy who has good advice, as well as "Diesel Demon" (Piers) have mentioned the GM 4L80E. So far this sounds like the best auto transmission out there without going to an Alison, which may not make sense.

Let's say BD (or someone else) has a transmission guru (?) who could figure out how to mate this "World" auto up to our Cummins engine. Not only that but epuip it with an indestructible tc, modify the valve body etc. to make the towin'ist,
strongest, hot roddin'ist auto to ever see the back side of a 5. 9??!!? Hmmm? Would this be worth the cost (not known)? Some of you are on your second Dodge trans now and I have read about some of you who are on your third. I read about guys haulin' enormous loads with auto trannys, this could be a way to put an end to your problems once and for all.

What do you think? Porky? Dewdo? You wouldn't have to take an upgrade back seat to the manual trans any more! Raahhh! Aaarr Aaarr #ad
#ad
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[This message has been edited by HVAC (edited 02-13-2000). ]

 

[David_VT]

I have to assume that the FL80E is not the same thing as the sick, useless, leggless, worthless, weak, wimpy, unreliable, piece of garbage that the L80E is which is in my 3/4 ton Suburban?
I am on my 2nd L80E and suspect I am heading for #3 soon. This chevy has a stock ca350 and I've owned it since day one. Truck never raced (like it ever could), never off road (except the one time which ended with the steps being ripped off), only driven by wife in the last 4 years.
Failure mode: looses top gears and finally stays in first gear.

Chevy paid for the first one at 55K on a 'silent' recall (i. e. they knew it was bad).

Hopefully these two transmissions are not related anywhere that is important.

Good luck!!

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[This message has been edited by David_VT (edited 02-13-2000). ]

 

[bmann]

HVAC,

Why not the Allison?


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2000 3500 Quad Cab, SLT+, 4x2 Auto, 3. 54 LSD, Camper & Trailer & Sports Options, Sliding Rear Window, BLACK. With Power Bolt Tailgate Lock, Dodge Sill Guards, Mag-Hytec Rear End Cover, LE-607 rear end oil, Mobil Delvac One Engine Oil, Leer Signature Camper Shell, K&N Air Filter, Bosch 275HP Injectors, vanAken CPC, JRE Boost Module.

 

[HVAC]

Gee, I hope it is not the same transmission you refer to. Randy says the FL80E is used in motor homes, big ol' 3/4 ton trucks and 1 ton trucks. It is rated for 800 ft lbs. of torque, that would be like the suburban right? #ad
This thing is supposed to be DURABLE!

By the way, if the boss wants you back out here, tell him your wife's about to have a baby or something, it's nasty, drippy, caca out here. Not fit for man or diesel beast!
I am thinking about a diesel powered Ark #ad

 

[HVAC]

Bman, I don't know a lot about the Alison.
Of course they do use them in large trucks so it must be strong. Some of the auto trucks(2 1/2t) I have driven had no power, seems the power is wasted in the whirling innards of the transmission as the various friction sources are cooled with oil. Maybe it is just a matter of the torque converter. I also believe the Alison is a bit large to slide under my petite little 2wd. These are unsubstantiated musings on my part, I am sitting here waiting for an expert to confirm or deny.

 

[porky]

HVAC, I suggest you find a "speed shop" that sells and installs retail parts, to look for link-suggestions, that will point you in the right direction. Hot Rod magazine would be a good place to start. The only GM transmission that I know of that were used to drag race were the "HYDROMATICS". B&M transmissions sells complete race ready
HYDROS". You may be forced to shift manually between gears since I'm not sure of the electronic vs Vacuum interface and how it would mate with your Cummins electronic controls. B&M makes a real slick floor shift with "detents" for each of the 4 forward gears! It basically goes from bottom to top gear in a straight line. Of course there's the bellhousing/ flywheel/ ring gear issue, but maybe someone like advance adapters might be able to help out with those items. Bye the way, I know a few Baja and desert racers who race all different pro classes and nobody- repeat nobody uses stick shift-manual transmissions anymore- they don't hold up! #ad


Just a thought; Maybe someone would like to trade you their Auto trans for your 5 speed, since it seems that there are a lot of people towing that wished they'd bought a stick. Then you could call our pal Tony at Dunrite convertors, in ElMonte, Ca. (626-442-1404) and have him build you a totally bullet proof auto. This is in my future! #ad


"POWER TO THE WHEELS" Sam

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1999 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad cab named "QUADZILLA". 24 valve Cummins ISB Turbo Diesel. Automatic transmission. Dana 70 anti-spin 3. 54 rear end. All Factory options except leather interior. Towing and camper package. Custom exhaust system. K&N air filter. Resonator removed. Boost and pyro gauges. Dodge molded mud flaps. Diamond brite chrome tool box.
Diesel Dynamics Stage III injectors, Boost module and wastegate fitting !!!

"I love the smell of diesel in the morning"

 

[HVAC]

Hello BIG GUY! I was wondering if you had contacted Tony. Do you have any cost feedback? I need a Kryptonite transmission that can hold all the power I am getting from the Caterpillar D9 turbo! #ad
I don't have a problem shifting manually, in fact I prefer it. This would be fine since you can't get the vacume shift modulator to work on the diesel. I think one of the coolest things of late is the manual shift auto that one of the German companies has. I will call BM and Tony on Monday.

 

[rjrkihap]

Are you talking about the 4L80E (92 and up GM HD trucks)? GM also made the 400 turbo as you know, but they upgraded the 400 turbo to a 475 turbo for motor homes and "real" heavy duty applications. I think Jet Performance Transmissions did the same thing with the 4L80E. It's designed for 750 ft/lbs of torque according to their advertisment.

Also, I believe the 4L80E takes some commands directly from the vehicles ECM, so swapping it into the Dodge would require some rewiring. GM made the 4L80 (non E) in 90 and 91. It didn't require the same ECM feeds as its newer brother (at least this is what the transmission shop said as they were rebuilding mine). The non E was the first step from the 400 turbo where GM tried for an HD Overdrive. Didn't work as well as they hoped. The rebuild on my 4L80 was a tremendous imporvement.

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'99 2500 SLT White Quadcab 4x4 auto 3. 54's,all options less leather, Weston Steps, Warn M12k w/Trans4mer, LineX, RotoEze Stinger, and a Polaris Diesel ATV bed toy.

 

[HVAC]

You are RIGHT!!! I am dislexic from diesel rodding without my g-suit. 4L80E is correct.
Can you tell me how to reach Jet Perf? I was told I could locate the pcm without to much trouble although at first glance I would prefer the version without the electrical controls. Thanks for interjecting some good hard data on this subject!

 

[Power Wagon]

Why not just use the Chrysler transmission? Isn't that what Piers is using?

 

[HVAC]

Who? Oh, you mean Scourge? The diesel demon is using the Dodge transmission, but you can see how badly it smokes #ad
Must be a leak somewhere #ad
Actually the thought crossed my mind, but when reflecting on the fact that he has had the input shaft break a couple times, I don't want to go there. I could stick with the paper 5sp and enjoy broken parts. I would like to have a component which will stand up to my occasional horsepower moments without breakage.

 

[Mad Max]

HVAC

You'd need a custom bellhousing at the very least. If there is a snowball's chance in hell that something already exists for it, try calling the folks at the following link, if not, they may have suggestions:
http://www.advanceadapters.com/

Also, for tricking it out, I've seen these guys's name kicked around in gasoline circles:
http://www.artcarr.com/

One other suggestion, now pardon my ignorance on this as I don't know Cummins engine families too well, just wish I could get the 360hp ISB variant (fire apparatus only config) in a DODGE =) SHWING. Any way, uh, the ford F700 is available with a Cummins, WHICH ONE? If it is an ISB, WHY NOT USE THE transmission BEHIND IT????? REGARDLESS OF MFG, YOU KNOW IT HAS TO HAVE NUTZ!!!!

Just another suggestion, I keep thinking mine will be an automatic money pit when I start checking off boxes on the order blank.

=) Happy Hunting & Good Luck. =)

Speed, THE PERFECT DRUG????

Gotta Study...

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MAD MAX

A Graduate Student Looking Forward to a Cummins Powered Graduation Gift to himself.


[This message has been edited by Mad Max (edited 02-13-2000). ]

 

[Pete Peterson]

Hvac I think PW got a point, the DC trans built up will be as strong as any on the market. They all will break if turned hard enough. The right TC, valve body, and heavy duty clutches and it should take what you throw at it. Just be carefull HVAC I hate the thoughts of you getting to enjoy an auto too much! #ad
#ad
Regards Pete

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99'3500,quad cab,4X4,a/t
3:54,all the right packages!

 

[HVAC]

Hey Max! Thanks for some good thinking on this matter!

I have always heard the mid range Frauds are using the ISB engine. The other configuration may be an ISC (?). The Flawed F700 version may use an allison transmission, I should look into the allison more thoroughly like Bmann eluded to. The scuttle butt was the Allison robbed so much power to the wheels you would have to have 400 flywheel hp to get 300 down to the ground. Granted, this may not be accurate.

Anyway, Porky crashed through here to tip me off to Advanced Adapters as well so I have them on my list of calls to make in the AM.

I will call Art Carr too, thanks for the scoop!

 

[Mad Max]

HVAC:

You're the Defender of the 24V Faith!

The 24V Poster Boy =)

Glad to be of assistance.

Keep me in the loop as to what you find out, unless you wind up with a LENCO$$$$ (TH400 based much like the 480LE... desendants so to speak )

Back to the Books... #ad

 

[HVAC]

Pete, thanks for spending time here on this topic with me. I think you and PW are great, but I respectfully disagree. A good example might be my new dual disc clutch, it is handling all the beans I can muster with out even breathing hard. I expect it to handle all the power I will add as well #ad
He! #ad
This is my benchmark for a transmission. I want a transmission commensurate with the Cummins engine and the dual disc clutch. Simple math?? My weak link currenly is the trans, and I want to go to something that will take the power parameters I intend to feed it. I don't want grocery getter drivetrain capacity levels, I want XX/TD compatible transmission capacity!!! I want a transmission with potential, not limitations!!! Am I sounding like a motivational speaker now or what! #ad


Pete, if it weren't for this ******* contest I have been volunteered for with "Scourge of the North", I would just stab the new 6sp in there and clutch at my preference for manual transmissons.

 

[Scrmbld4X4]

HVAC, Mad Max is onto something. If you are trying to make big truck power in a "petite 2wd" than you need big truck drivetrain. Played this game (still am on 'the Jeep') on a couple 1 ton pherds for pulling duty the eliminator kind. Remember when you upgrade one piece it just moves the weak link farther down the chain. Will the Dana 80 take it? maybe I'd bet the next problem is the 1350 series U-jionts. Luckily you only have 1 driveline to upgrade. 1410's are spendy and finding someone who even knows what they are is getting hard. The Dana 80 R&P is the next suspect. Pherd Super duties use the Dana 130 Have you seen one of these B I G. But not to many out there yet.

I'd stick some cubic dollars into the MOPAR slush box. Adapters aren't out there and noone is interrested in making one offs. I've asked, no profitability.
Mad Max probably gave you the only solution to a swap. Find out what other drivetrains use the ISB and look there. Cummins must sell this motor to other maufactures who are putting them in bigger chasis. When you find out this you'll have your answer for a swap. I agree with you the Allison is garbage. All that power you've worked so hard to make will get stucked up in a black hole known as an allison auto, and a stocker will kick your butt. I speak from experience of having to drive one of those worthless Allison equiped trucks at work. '94 Ford L9000, cummins, and a 5 speed allison. We pull a JD 510 back hoe on a Wisconsin tilt. I get passed all the time by 3500 dodge cummins and goose necks with a backhoe. I've got better gearing and alot more motor. THE transmission SUCKS literally.

Hope this helps. You can make a 727 auto (pre overdrive) take some pretty amasing power, 1000 + HP, Can't see why a good transmission shop can't tune up the overdrive unit. My transmission guy says its a 727 with an "external" overdrive.

Now for a side note. I was thinking of going down your dark path, but i like my five speed. Maybe i'll only be a navigator instead of a bomber pilot. Call it quits at the injectors.

Later, Bob

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TOWER: '99 3500 4X4, White, 3. 54 LSD, 5spd, CMPR&TRL package. 'Glass shell. Stock for now, but I feel the need


TOWEE: '82 CJ-8,Lime Light, 440 cubic inches of MOPAR's finest (~450H. P. ) Dana 44 frt, Dans 60 rr 4. 88's & Detroits, 38. 5 X 14. 50 Swampers.

BIGGER IS BETTER!! MO POWER

 

[Bob V]

HVAC
I was at my local Cummins dealer (Cummins NW) and picked up a "repower" ad. It had bellhousings for GM and Ford. How about a medeum duty truck 5spd. No overdrive but used ones are cheep. Then maybe a two speed rear end. 10 fwd & 2 rev, better yet, add a aux overdrive. 20 fwd & 4 rev #ad


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'97 CC 5spd 4. 10 5spd 315/75 16,Bushwacker,TST 280hp.



[This message has been edited by Bob V (edited 02-13-2000). ]

 

[HVAC]

I have a lot of conficence in the differential, anybody hear of a failure? I have not. It is the same as the 1 ton and I calculate my weak link should be the tires spinning on the pavement not the drivetrain. My 12v hero "Smokin' Dave Mitchell" has busted a driveline yoke but the rest of the stuff layin the power to the ground is in tack.

 

[HVAC]

Bob V. I have discussed Fuller transmissions and they don't have a 6th gear that is over 1 to 1. The splits don't work for me. I would be better off with the NV5600. If I go with a Fuller, I will need an aftermarket OD and the overall cost goes through the roof.