WHO lied about what???

[merryman]

Here is what a few of the allstars of the left had to say about WMDs before somebody got the absurd idea that they could some how claim Bush lied, and thereby make some political gain.



Senator John F. Kerry:

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein ... ... . he is miscalculating America's response to his ... ... grasp for weapons of mass destruction... ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real... ... . " Jan. 23, 2003.

"I will be voting to give the president of the U. S. the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsonal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security. " Oct. 9, 2002



Letter to President Clinton signed by Senators Tom Daschle, Carl Levin, and others dated Oct. 9, 1998:

"We urge you... ... to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missle strikes on suspect Iraqi sights) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs. "



Senator Bob Graham:

"We are in possession of ..... compelling evidenc e that Saddam Hussein has ... ..... capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. " Dec. 8, 2002



Senator Hillary Clingon:

"In the four years since the inspectors left... ... . Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapon stock, his missile capability, and his neuclear program... ... . " Oct. 10, 2002



Senator Henry Waxman:

"He has systematically violated... ... . every significant U. N. resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons... ... ... this he has refused to do. " Oct. 10, 2002



Senator Jay Rockefeller:

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop neuclear weapons and will likely have neuclear weapons within the next 5 years..... we also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction. " Oct. 10, 2002



Senator Robert Byrd:

"We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. " Oct. 3, 2002



Senator Ted Kennedy:

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction. " Sept. 27, 2002



Al Gore:

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven immpossible to... ..... deter, and we should assume that it will continue as long as Saddam is in power. " Sept. 23, 2002



Senator Carl Levin:

"... ... . Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the U. N. and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them. " Sept. 19, 2002



Madaline Albright (Clinton's Sec. of State):

"Hussein has... ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction. " Nov. 10, 1999

"Iraq is a long way from (here), but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use neuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face. " Feb. 18, 1998



Bill Clinton:

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction... ..... " Feb. 17, 1998





Now every one of these people (as well as those who parrot their claims in the media and here, claim Bush was lying when said there were WMDs

Sooooooo

Either they were all lying when they made the above statements, Or they are lying now when they falsely accuse Bush---

Its pretty obvious which it is. (The can not claim Bush misled them as many of the above statements were were made before Bush took office. ) Now they are lying to try to gain political advantage, and could care less that in the process they give aid and comfort to our enemy and damage the security of our nation. How low cam some people stoop!!!



Vaughn











.

 

[Boomer II]

demokrat=lie

 

[Champane Flight]

Twist

Republcant=twist

 

[illflem]

All the above quotes prove to me is that our intelligence community has been screwed up or biased for a long time and shouldn't be trusted. GW and his gang were just the first ones lame enough to trust them or bend their findings enough to send 200+ and counting to their death's over it.

Make's me wonder if anything at all is actually going on in N. Korea or Iran.



I could give a hoot about the Iranians, it just irks me that the administration felt they needed to bend things in order to justify. Even if they had just said it was all for oil I would have no problem supporting it.

 

[big jake 1]

Originally posted by illflem

. GW and his gang were just the first ones lame enough to trust them enough to send 200+ and counting to their death's over it.

so what you are saying is that all those dems in the above thread knew that it was the truth, but just didn't trust it?????????



WTF?????????





seems to me all those blow-hards wanted to do was to be seen and heard, those were just words. On the other hand, President Bush was the only one with the steelies to back up his words with actions.



Looks like they had a pretty good day, today.



Anytime a life is lost it is a tragedy, but you have over 150k troops in the region and there is only on the average one life lost a day. I dare you to pick up a newspaper anywhere in the country that caters to a population of 150k and not find at least one obituary a day for that readership.



We are still at war and to be at war and only have one casualty a day is pretty good odds.



Nobody forced those troops to be in that war zone,



THEY ALL SIGNED UP!!!!!!!!!



none were drafted, they all knew there was the possibility they would be put in combat conditions.



I for one am proud of my President and the job he is doing being the Commander in Chief of those serving in Iraq.



big jake



THE FORD GUY!!!!!!

 

[bmoeller]

Originally posted by merryman

Here is what a few of the allstars of the left had to say about WMDs before somebody got the absurd idea that they could some how claim Bush lied, and thereby make some political gain.



Senator John F. Kerry:

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein ... ... . he is miscalculating America's response to his ... ... grasp for weapons of mass destruction... ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real... ... . " Jan. 23, 2003.

"I will be voting to give the president of the U. S. the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsonal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security. " Oct. 9, 2002



Letter to President Clinton signed by Senators Tom Daschle, Carl Levin, and others dated Oct. 9, 1998:

"We urge you... ... to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missle strikes on suspect Iraqi sights) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs. "



Senator Bob Graham:

"We are in possession of ..... compelling evidenc e that Saddam Hussein has ... ..... capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. " Dec. 8, 2002



Senator Hillary Clingon:

"In the four years since the inspectors left... ... . Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapon stock, his missile capability, and his neuclear program... ... . " Oct. 10, 2002



Senator Henry Waxman:

"He has systematically violated... ... . every significant U. N. resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons... ... ... this he has refused to do. " Oct. 10, 2002



Senator Jay Rockefeller:

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop neuclear weapons and will likely have neuclear weapons within the next 5 years..... we also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction. " Oct. 10, 2002



Senator Robert Byrd:

"We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. " Oct. 3, 2002



Senator Ted Kennedy:

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction. " Sept. 27, 2002



Al Gore:

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven immpossible to... ..... deter, and we should assume that it will continue as long as Saddam is in power. " Sept. 23, 2002



Senator Carl Levin:

"... ... . Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the U. N. and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them. " Sept. 19, 2002



Madaline Albright (Clinton's Sec. of State):

"Hussein has... ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction. " Nov. 10, 1999

"Iraq is a long way from (here), but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use neuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face. " Feb. 18, 1998



Bill Clinton:

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction... ..... " Feb. 17, 1998





Now every one of these people (as well as those who parrot their claims in the media and here, claim Bush was lying when said there were WMDs

Sooooooo

Either they were all lying when they made the above statements, Or they are lying now when they falsely accuse Bush---

Its pretty obvious which it is. (The can not claim Bush misled them as many of the above statements were were made before Bush took office. ) Now they are lying to try to gain political advantage, and could care less that in the process they give aid and comfort to our enemy and damage the security of our nation. How low cam some people stoop!!!



Vaughn

The only reason that they went along with it when Clinton was in office, was that whether or not it was true, they knew he wouldn't do anything about it.



The libs HATE Republicans and Conservatives and Bush. They want to make him look like blood-thirsty killer.



If they haven't found any WMD's, it's because we ***** footed around with UN and gave Saddam MORE than enough time to hide/move anything they had.



http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_072203/content/rush_is_right.guest.html

 

[Champane Flight]

If

The intelligence was there back when Clinton was in office. Clinton knew better than to trust it and embellish (for lack of saying he lied) this information for the benefit of a invasion. All of the men above sat, watched a few others get drilled, called traitors, and for lack of steelies would not stand up to the pro-war crowd. This is as far as I am concerned a serious character flaw and one reason my vote my not contain any of there names in the future.



After the great job that Bush has done in the last three years, I don't think the country can stand another four from him. The only steelies this joker has is rattling around in his empty head!



One man a day! 365 days a year, in ten years 3650 men! A drop in the bucket, unless of course one of them is your son or daughter, picking your buddy up in a bag is not the same as dieing of old age in a small town!!!!. Is Iraq better off since we came? They cannot even let there children play outside in Baghdad! Are we going to succeed in making Iraq a democratic nation? If we do it will not be the kind of nation we want (Iran).



Has anyone ever thought that these WMDs are already in the hands of terror and on there way to the US? Do we have anyone to stop them from entering the US? The CG is stretched to the point of breaking, our borders are not defended. The majority of our troops are over seas, we cannot even relieve them! The troops in Iraq are losing moral everyday and some are voicing it. In Nam we knew when we were getting out, these guys are being told to shut up, click your heels together and say "Theres no place like home"... ...



We got the boys yesterday, this is a good thing. We also lost two more of ours. Even after we get Saddam it will continue, are you ready? Did he lie, I really don't give a hoot, he ordered troops into a country that did not need us, or want us. He has not gone to see his troops in Iraq yet, then let him say "bring em on"... ...



http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4173.htm

 

[BFC]

Re: If

Originally posted by Champane Flight

The intelligence was there back when Clinton was in office. Clinton knew better than to trust it and embellish http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4173.htm

Sure was good enough to bomb an Aspirin factory though... ..... none of you guys asked for an investigation then or said that the prez was lying we he told us in a speech that it was a chemical weapons plant.....

 

[merryman]

A leading liberal writer and avowed democratic columnist, Scott Segal writing in The Washington Times in discussing just the sort of comments and accusations we have been seeing here by our lib members, said;

"... a juvenile variety of guilt association. 'Even though we can't point to any particualar thing your're doing wrong, you must be doing somethin wrong'... President Bush has been untouched by the taint of personal scandal and certainly the Democratic opponents have attempted to manufacture scandals out of whole cloth to replace or fill the vacuum left by his relatively scandal-free personal record"



Folks, that is a leading democratic " mouth" speaking. He just happens to be one with intellectual honesty.

If there were really anything to this "87th effort" (the words of Dick Morris a former confidant and advisor of the Clintons) by the lefties and the media to find something on Bush, this Democratic/liberal writer would certainly be hitting it hard. Instead he dismisses it as "juvenile"



Bush's freedom from scandal and wrong doing is driving these nay sayers nuts---and they keep acting nuttier.



Wake up lefties, you are barking up an empty tree and looking increasingly foolish.



Vaughn

 

[Champane Flight]

Uh huh...

July 22, 2003

Who's Unpatriotic Now?

By PAUL KRUGMAN





ome nonrevisionist history: On Oct. 8, 2002, Knight Ridder newspapers reported on intelligence officials who "charge that the administration squelches dissenting views, and that intelligence analysts are under intense pressure to produce reports supporting the White House's argument that Saddam poses such an immediate threat to the United States that pre-emptive military action is necessary. " One official accused the administration of pressuring analysts to "cook the intelligence books"; none of the dozen other officials the reporters spoke to disagreed.



The skepticism of these officials has been vindicated. So have the concerns expressed before the war by military professionals like Gen. Eric Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, about the resources required for postwar occupation. But as the bad news comes in, those who promoted this war have responded with a concerted effort to smear the messengers.



Issues of principle aside, the invasion of a country that hadn't attacked us and didn't pose an imminent threat has seriously weakened our military position. Of the Army's 33 combat brigades, 16 are in Iraq; this leaves us ill prepared to cope with genuine threats. Moreover, military experts say that with almost two-thirds of its brigades deployed overseas, mainly in Iraq, the Army's readiness is eroding: normal doctrine calls for only one brigade in three to be deployed abroad, while the other two retrain and refit.



And the war will have devastating effects on future recruiting by the reserves. A widely circulated photo from Iraq shows a sign in the windshield of a military truck that reads, "One weekend a month, my ass. "



To top it all off, our insistence on launching a war without U. N. approval has deprived us of useful allies. George Bush claims to have a "huge coalition," but only 7 percent of the coalition soldiers in Iraq are non-American — and administration pleas for more help are sounding increasingly plaintive.



How serious is the strain on our military? The Brookings Institution military analyst Michael O'Hanlon, who describes our volunteer military as "one of the best military institutions in human history," warns that "the Bush administration will risk destroying that accomplishment if they keep on the current path. "



But instead of explaining what happened to the Al Qaeda link and the nuclear program, in the last few days a series of hawkish pundits have accused those who ask such questions of aiding the enemy. Here's Frank Gaffney Jr. in The National Post: "Somewhere, probably in Iraq, Saddam Hussein is gloating. He can only be gratified by the feeding frenzy of recriminations, second-guessing and political power plays. . . . Signs of declining popular appreciation of the legitimacy and necessity of the efforts of America's armed forces will erode their morale. Similarly, the enemy will be encouraged. "



Well, if we're going to talk about aiding the enemy: By cooking intelligence to promote a war that wasn't urgent, the administration has squandered our military strength. This provides a lot of aid and comfort to Osama bin Laden — who really did attack America — and Kim Jong Il — who really is building nukes.



And while we're on the subject of patriotism, let's talk about the affair of Joseph Wilson's wife. Mr. Wilson is the former ambassador who was sent to Niger by the C. I. A. to investigate reports of attempted Iraqi uranium purchases and who recently went public with his findings. Since then administration allies have sought to discredit him — it's unpleasant stuff. But here's the kicker: both the columnist Robert Novak and Time magazine say that administration officials told them that they believed that Mr. Wilson had been chosen through the influence of his wife, whom they identified as a C. I. A. operative.



Think about that: if their characterization of Mr. Wilson's wife is true (he refuses to confirm or deny it), Bush administration officials have exposed the identity of a covert operative. That happens to be a criminal act; it's also definitely unpatriotic.



So why would they do such a thing? Partly, perhaps, to punish Mr. Wilson, but also to send a message.



And that should alarm us. We've just seen how politicized, cooked intelligence can damage our national interest. Yet the Wilson affair suggests that the administration intends to continue pressuring analysts to tell it what it wants to hear.

 

[merryman]

That must get us up to about --effort # 89--- by the lefty press and mouths to cook up something that will stick to bush (Last week Dick Morris put the efforts at 87, and basically said it was a silly pointless effort because there is nothing there. --remember he was a long time Clinton supporter who would not be out to do the conservatives any favors)

Now a leading demo/liberal columnist classifies it as "juvenile" and describes it as efforts to "manufacture " a scandal "out of whole cloth"

Ya gotta hand it to the libs on one point; they just don't quit!

But they just keep looking goofier.



On the one man a day post above, sure thats sad and we all wish it wern't so, but to give a little perspective;

A Harvard University study contends that the use of cell phones by drivers now cause accidents that kill between 6 and 7 people per day!!!

Maybe some of our boys ought to join an anti cell phone group. Thats 2600 people dead per year.



Vaughn

 

[illflem]

Donald Rumsfeld died and went to hell. As he stood in front of Satin, he saw a huge wall of clocks behind him.



He asked, "What are all those clocks?"



The Devil answered, "Those are Lie-Clocks. Everyone on Earth has a Lie-Clock. Every time you lie the hands on your clock will move. "



"Oh," said Rumsfeld, "whose clock is that?"



"That's Mother Teresa's. The hands have never moved, indicating that she never told a lie. "



"Incredible," said Rumsfeld. "And whose clock is that one?"



Satin responded, "That's Abraham Lincoln's clock. The hands have moved twice, telling us that Abe told only two lies in his entire life. "



"Where's Bush's clock?" asked Rumsfeld.



"Bush's clock is in my office. I'm using it as a ceiling fan. "





The Bush administration has told so many lies that they are now faced with an extremely complex management task- they have to coordinate their cover-up stories with the various agencies and staff, and any miscues are going to come under intense scrutiny. When someone has lied, they basically have 3 options-



1. Confess their sins, tell the truth, and accept the consequences (not a politically viable option for Bush)



2. Stonewall; just clam up and refuse to cooperate



3. Tell more lies in hopes of covering up the previous ones



I'm betting the Bush people will choose Door #2...



Next step, watch for the resignations- I'm betting that we will start seeing an exodus from the Bush/Cheney Inc. administration as the evidence mounts. Look for some carefully worded statements like, "I have decided to pursue other opportunities in the private sector... "

 

[jryan11518]

I do not think so. Classified, Sealed and on the way to Daddy's Library. National Security Interests and if YOU question it you are not a patriot, just a lowly traitor not supporting your Government

 

[BFC]

Joe Liberman today:



"The anti-tax-cut, soft-on-defense, big-spending Democrats will take the Democratic Party to the edge and maybe over," Lieberman told Fox News while campaigning at a state-of-the-art job training center in Phoenix (search).



I don't believe the American people are going to elect for president in 2004, post 9/11, in an unsettled world, a candidate who has been opposed to the use of military power against a brutal dictator like Saddam Hussein," he said.





From CNN:



Clinton's defense of Bush surprises fellow Democrats



(YEP That is the actual CNN title of the piece, you read it right, CNN)



Clinton also said Tuesday night that at the end of his term, there was "a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for " in Iraq.



"So I thought it was prudent for the president to go to the U. N. and for the U. N. to say, 'You got to let these inspectors in, and this time if you don't cooperate the penalty could be regime change, not just continued sanctions. '"



Clinton told King: "People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons. "



"I thought the White House did the right thing in just saying 'we probably shouldn't have said that,' " Clinton told King.



"You know, everybody makes mistakes when they are president. I mean, you can't make as many calls as you have to make without messing up once in a while. The thing we ought to be focused on is what is the right thing to do now. That's what I think. "





It's going to be fun the next few days watching the Dems skate, Slick Willy backing Bush, what's the world coming to... ... ... ...



I'll see if I can find the whole thing, he backs him up on the state of the union 16 words too, blew my mind.



Glenn

 

[Champane Flight]

More?

Weapons of Mass Redaction

By MAUREEN DOWD





his correspondence from the Office of the Vice President to the xxxxx ambassador to the U. S. was redacted by the Office of the Vice President for national and electoral security reasons:



Dear Prince xxxxx bin xxxxx ,xxxx



Thank you, my friend, for the falcon. It survived the trip on your Gulfstream. It is now eating small endangered woodland creatures at my Jackson Hole ranch.



We are pumped about the double rubout of the Hussein boys. We really needed that win. It could be a game-changer for us. The stock market killed on the killings. And the timing will help cover your royal xxx, too.



When the 9/11 commission report comes out tomorrow, I think you will be well satisfied with our efforts to keep you guys out of it.



We have almost as much experience as you at keeping private matters veiled. It's not good to overburden the American people with too much complicated information.



We didn't let a thing slip on our private energy meetings where we took care of our mutual friends in the xxx industry; we kept the bidding closed on the Halliburton contracts to rebuild Iraq, and we set up our own C. I. A. within the Pentagon to produce the intelligence we wanted to link Al Qaeda to Saddam rather than to your country.



We've classified the entire section of the 9/11 report that deals with the xxxxx family's support of charitable groups that benefit terrorists, including mentions of your wife's checks inexplicably winding up in the bank accounts of two of the hijackers. (Lynn says to tell Princess xxxxx we have four tickets for the xxxxx ballet at the Kennedy Center. )



We're not even letting Bob Graham mention the name of your country. We threatened to throw him in the federal slammer if he calls xxxxx anything but "a foreign government. "



Not to worry that the report will shed any light on the ties between the hijackers and your government agent xxx al- xxxxx .



I know you're worried that the whiny widows of 9/11 will throw another hissy-fit when they see all the blacked-out material, like they did when you whisked Osama's family out of the U. S. on a private jet right after the attacks. But we didn't go this far down the road of pushing aside incriminating evidence about you guys and blaming 9/11 on Saddam to turn back now because a few thousand families can't get their darn closure.



Buddy, we go back a long way. You've been a great host to the Bushes and you've been generous with rides on your Airbus and Gulfstream and with invites to your beautiful estates in xxxx and xxxxx and xxxxxxxxxxx .



But now you have to throw us a bone. Al Qaeda cells are crawling all over your kingdom, planning attacks around the world. They've gotten even stronger since the May bombing of Western compounds in xxxxx . We need a little more than lip service about quelling anti-American fervor over there and cracking down on phony charities. You've got to at least give the F. B. I. something to work with. Don't worry. They'll screw it up anyway.



Rest assured that the F. B. I. 's taking the heat for 9/11 in the report tomorrow, not you.



I hear you want to behead that ex-spook Robert Baer, who's been all over TV talking about the way you lavish money to influence U. S. politics, donating millions to presidential libraries and the like. But after all, every million spent on a congressman's favorite charity is one less million for a terrorist's fake charity.



Here in the xxxxx House, we've mastered the art of moving beyond what people once thought was important to look for. First, we switched from looking for Osama to looking for Saddam. Then we switched from looking for "weapons" to looking for "weapons programs. " Now Wolfie has informed the public that we need to worry less about finding weapons in Iraq than building democracy.



The trick is to keep moving. Just yesterday, we shifted the blame for the uranium debacle in the president's State of the xxxxx speech from George Tenet at the C. I. A. to Stephen Hadley at the N. S. C.



I'd like to return your many acts of generosity. Why not come to dinner at my Secret Undisclosed Location? Here's the address:xxxxxxx in xxxxxxxxxxxx .



All the best, Dick.

 

[Shrimpy]

Maureen Dowd ... ..... Give me a break.



Next they will be quoting Popeye

 

[Champane Flight]

As bad as

As bad as putting links to Rush?

 

[illflem]

A Harvard University study contends that the use of cell phones by drivers now cause accidents that kill between 6 and 7 people per day!!!

Maybe some of our boys ought to join an anti cell phone group. Thats 2600 people dead per year.

Analogies like this are exactly the same as saying one dead American boy per day in Iraq is no big deal. I feel it is a big deal. Killing Saddam and his buddies will change nothing there, our soldiers are getting picked off because the Iraqis want the US gone, not Saddam back. It will continue till the last day our troops are there.





The last census has about 230 million people in America. There are about 140,000 soldiers in Iraq. If American civilians on the home front were dieing at the same rate that they are in Iraq, one American would be killed every 45 seconds. That equals 1,920 people dead every day or more than the WTC attack every two days.

 

[DLeach]

The war as i see it.

Since the current military campaign began, the report notes, coalition forces have found military warehouses full of food, purchased under the U. N. Oil-For-Food Program for civilian use, that has been diverted to the military.



Among the report's findings:



-- The terror campaign against the Kurds in northern Iraq killed between 50,000 and 100,000 people and destroyed more than 2,000 villages and towns.



-- Iraqi officials themselves have privately acknowledged that the regime slaughtered as many as 200,000 Shi'a during the 1991 uprisings against the regime following the Gulf War.



-- Estimates that the regime's policies have resulted in the internal displacement of as many as 900,000 people, encompassing virtually every ethnic and religious group in the country -- Shi'a, Kurds, Assyrians, Turkomans, and the southern marsh peoples.



-- The deaths of as many as 400,000 children due to malnutrition and disease directly attributable to the regime's neglect and brutality.



-- Systematic and mass executions of prisoners, and the beheading of at least 130 women.



According to a 2001 Amnesty International report, "victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings and electric shocks ... some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage. " Saddam has had approximately 40 of his own relatives murdered.



Allegations of prostitution used to intimidate opponents of the regime, have been used by the regime to justify the barbaric beheading of women. Documented chemical attacks by the regime, from 1983 to 1988, resulted in some 30,000 Iraqi and Iranian deaths.



Human Rights Watch estimates that Saddam's 1987-1988 campaign of terror against the Kurds killed at least 50,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Kurds.



-- The Iraqi regime used chemical agents to include mustard gas and nerve agents in attacks against at least 40 Kurdish villages between 1987-1988. The largest was the attack on Halabja which resulted in approximately 5,000 deaths.



-- Under the oil-for-food program, the international community sought to make available to the Iraqi people adequate supplies of food and medicine, but the regime blocked sufficient access for international workers to ensure proper distribution of these supplies.



-- Since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, coalition forces have discovered military warehouses filled with food supplies meant for the Iraqi people that had been diverted by Iraqi military forces.



The Iraqi regime has repeatedly refused visits by human rights monitors. From 1992 until 2002, Saddam prevented the U. N. Special Rapporteur from visiting Iraq. The U. N. Special Rapporteur's September 2001, report criticized the regime for "the sheer number of executions," the number of "extrajudicial executions on political grounds," and "the absence of a due process of the law. "



Executions: Saddam Hussein's regime has carried out frequent summary executions, including:



-- 4,000 prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in 1984,



-- 3,000 prisoners at the Mahjar prison from 1993-1998,



-- 2,500 prisoners were executed between 1997-1999 in a "prison cleansing campaign,"



-- 122 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in February/March 2000,



-- 23 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in October 2001,



-- At least 130 Iraqi women were beheaded between June 2000 and April 2001.







For a long story check this link out...







http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/05/bowden.htm





So i guess you guys are right, we should have stayed out because it had nothing to do with us. The Union should have never bothered the confederates to put an end to slavery. We should have never help the British to drive the nazis out of France and Poland, because the nazis didnt pose any "immediate" danger to use, i mean for gosh sakes they were on the other side of the world. And i think we should have left the nazis to keep running the concentration camps too, im not jewish so it really doesnt concern me or put me in real "immediate" danger. As a matter of fact, I guess we should let the rest of the world collapse around us and be in utter turmoil. Just like we should have let Saddam and his 2 wonderful sons stay in power. Because after all, some of you think he was an honest guy that was just trying his best to run his own little corner of his world. Im sure he had the best intentions in all the horrible things he has done. Im sure you some of the more "enlightened" and "civilized" people on this board would be oh so happy to explain to some of these people or family members who were killed or tortured by these horrible people that we should have just let him be. It hurts my heart to hear that American lives are being taken everyday. However, these fine young men and women new the job was dangerous. If they were not ready to take the responsiblity to die for there country then they should not have enlisted. There was no draft as i remember, and maybe that will make people think twice before joining the armed forces just to get an easy ride and education on the goverments tab. Thats my 2 dollars worth, which seems to be worth more than the rest of this 2 cent crap ive read so far. So please feel free to pick apart the numbers and places it happened, and try to discredit small facts to make yourself feel better. The truth remains, when the dust settles, millions of people will thank us because everyone knows its the right thing to do. Partisan and political B. S. aside it was the right thing to do. You can debate it till the cows come home but if there is any shred of compassion in anyone it was the right thing to do.





Aloha... .







:-{}

 

[Shrimpy]

I haven't participated greatly in this thread, but WHO QUOTED RUSH !!!!!!!????????



Dowd hasen't written anything worth reading since she stopped writing humor 20 years ago. She TRIES to be on the level of an intellectual type, but she misses the mark terribly!!!!



Watch out DLeach, some on this thread just HATE when FACTS are put forth . It destroys all their arguments!!!!!!!