-
TDR Magazine subscribers receive more than the magazine! You also gain additional forum privileges!
Details here: TDR Privileges
Subscribe to TDR Magazine here: https://www.tdr-online.com/
Who made the first tripple disk TC??
- Thread starter JR2
- Start Date
Attention: TDR Forum Junkies To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.
Thanks, TDR Staff
- Status
JR;
The answer is neither ATS nor Goerend.
Dave (Goerend) told me he and ATS bought the semi-circle tabbed machined cover and clutch plates from the same supplier (cannot remember name). ATS has since gone away from the semi-circle tabs to square tabs on the clutch plates and cover and produce their own.
John
The answer is neither ATS nor Goerend.
Dave (Goerend) told me he and ATS bought the semi-circle tabbed machined cover and clutch plates from the same supplier (cannot remember name). ATS has since gone away from the semi-circle tabs to square tabs on the clutch plates and cover and produce their own.
John
Posted by JohnE Dave (Goerend) told me he and ATS bought the semi-circle tabbed machined cover and clutch plates from the same supplier
This upset me and I called Clint Cannon, owner of ATS and asked him if this was true. Here is what Clint said.
When ATS was working on their prototype for the Triple-Lok T. C. cover they had a machine shop in Tennesee make up some preliminary designs, to ATS's own blueprints. These first few prototypes were never sold to the public; rather they were intended to be used to test and re-test the concept of the Triple-Lok on Clint's own trucks. (Clint has a Ford Powerstroke as well as a Dodge Cummins, and most of his employees have Dodge/Cummins)
The agreement with the machine shop owner was that the preliminary design of the T. C. Cover and tabbed clutches was owned by ATS and the machine shop guy was NOT to sell, distribute or circulate the design in any way.
The machine shop owner did not keep his word, and sold that early design to any trans shop which anted up the cash. This included Dave Goerend.
ATS learned from this and bought their own new 4-axis CNC machine, (probably cost in excess of 200 grand!) and began to machine their own prototypes. They DID NOT rush this design. They re-tooled and re-tested it many times, in order to get it perfect. They tested EVERY component in the 47RH (and later RE). The present Stage IV design is the result of YEARS of testing on their own trucks. Clint estimates he blew out 25 transmissions over the years, testing EVERY component of the ATS Stage IV. Don Ramer estimates he blew out 20 transmissions testing components. All this before they sold a single Triple-Lok!
These guys are thorough, dilligent, dedicated, smart and tough! They have re-engineered, cyroed, heat-treated or re-designed EVERY marginal component in the 47RH & 47RE.
That's why I got one. I'd do it again in a heatbeat.
This upset me and I called Clint Cannon, owner of ATS and asked him if this was true. Here is what Clint said.
When ATS was working on their prototype for the Triple-Lok T. C. cover they had a machine shop in Tennesee make up some preliminary designs, to ATS's own blueprints. These first few prototypes were never sold to the public; rather they were intended to be used to test and re-test the concept of the Triple-Lok on Clint's own trucks. (Clint has a Ford Powerstroke as well as a Dodge Cummins, and most of his employees have Dodge/Cummins)
The agreement with the machine shop owner was that the preliminary design of the T. C. Cover and tabbed clutches was owned by ATS and the machine shop guy was NOT to sell, distribute or circulate the design in any way.
The machine shop owner did not keep his word, and sold that early design to any trans shop which anted up the cash. This included Dave Goerend.
ATS learned from this and bought their own new 4-axis CNC machine, (probably cost in excess of 200 grand!) and began to machine their own prototypes. They DID NOT rush this design. They re-tooled and re-tested it many times, in order to get it perfect. They tested EVERY component in the 47RH (and later RE). The present Stage IV design is the result of YEARS of testing on their own trucks. Clint estimates he blew out 25 transmissions over the years, testing EVERY component of the ATS Stage IV. Don Ramer estimates he blew out 20 transmissions testing components. All this before they sold a single Triple-Lok!
These guys are thorough, dilligent, dedicated, smart and tough! They have re-engineered, cyroed, heat-treated or re-designed EVERY marginal component in the 47RH & 47RE.
That's why I got one. I'd do it again in a heatbeat.
<blockquote><em>"Dave told you that?"</em></blockquote>
Yes, he did on the semi-circle tabbed units. If the information or my memory is not accurate I appologize.
The information on ATS and square tabs is what I read in their website.
Remember, the quaility of the parts is one thing. The quality of the assembly is what makes or breaks it.
<em>
edit
I posted my reply to Stakeman about the same time rrausch was adding his reply.
I see the "rest of the story" was pretty thorough by rrausch.
JR2
It appears you already knew the answer to the question when you posted. </em>
Yes, he did on the semi-circle tabbed units. If the information or my memory is not accurate I appologize.
The information on ATS and square tabs is what I read in their website.
Remember, the quaility of the parts is one thing. The quality of the assembly is what makes or breaks it.
<em>
edit
I posted my reply to Stakeman about the same time rrausch was adding his reply.
I see the "rest of the story" was pretty thorough by rrausch.
JR2
It appears you already knew the answer to the question when you posted. </em>
Last edited:
Well so much for this staying clean... . Don't remember anybody asking for DTTs opinion.
I really want to go with DTT... . but certain posters really give 'em a bad image, IMNSHO.
I really want to go with DTT... . but certain posters really give 'em a bad image, IMNSHO.
Enough Of The Wars!
I have, yet again, deleted/edited some posts within this thread. There is no room for vendor bashing on this website. Keep it constructive, please.
If you have any issues or questions regarding this request, please e-mail me personally at: rpatton@ix.netcom.com.
Robin
TDR Admin
I have, yet again, deleted/edited some posts within this thread. There is no room for vendor bashing on this website. Keep it constructive, please.
If you have any issues or questions regarding this request, please e-mail me personally at: rpatton@ix.netcom.com.
Robin
TDR Admin
I know that SunCoast makes a pretty good one as well don't they? Some say their's is about 96 or 97% efficent now days.
Andrew
Andrew
Supposedly Suncoast copied the TripleLok too. Second hand info tho
I don't feel it's a matter of anyone copying another's design it's just when you set out to engineer a product to be the best it can be many designers will often end up with the same design. There are lots of products out there that are almost the same except for a mute detail changed for patent reasons.
Also, it's not just the Torque Converter which makes a great Trans.
The reason I went with ATS was, yes the TripleLok, but also because of all the other strengthened, heat-treated, cyroed, re-engineered and beefed-up parts they put into the trans. I wrote about it when I got my ATS last April. Here's the thread.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com...41&highlight=my+experience+with+ATS+in+Denver
The reason I went with ATS was, yes the TripleLok, but also because of all the other strengthened, heat-treated, cyroed, re-engineered and beefed-up parts they put into the trans. I wrote about it when I got my ATS last April. Here's the thread.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com...41&highlight=my+experience+with+ATS+in+Denver
Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick
Supposedly Suncoast copied the TripleLok too. Second hand info tho
No, I heard they got the idea from somebody else, in the gasser industry.
Learn about Precision Industries. They are the one of the original producers of multi disc converters for the first market, drag racing. The multi disc converters surfaced in the mid 90's. PI also produces the converter parts that many builders use.
The first triple disc design for Dodge/Cummins was developed by a vendor of PI (not ATS).
Answering JR2's original question, it is Precision Industries that <em>produced</em> the original triple disc converter for Dodge/Cummins applications. <em>Marketed</em> the first multi disc is not the same story.
-John
The first triple disc design for Dodge/Cummins was developed by a vendor of PI (not ATS).
Answering JR2's original question, it is Precision Industries that <em>produced</em> the original triple disc converter for Dodge/Cummins applications. <em>Marketed</em> the first multi disc is not the same story.
-John
JR2
Been awhile since I looked through these posts, JohnE is correct. PI did the first for race applications and has now made it to the street here in the '90's. Technology is much older than that though I'd say over 25 years. The reason vendors are coming out with them is for obvious reasons but are by no means patented. As I dought their design is much different. Vendors workout deals with manufactures to produce their products for them and only them under contract, i. e. DTT and TCS. Yes Bill K doesn't build/manufactur his own either nor is his design's revolutionary or original.
Ford Rangers actually came with one stock for awhile with "square tabs", so ATS is not doing anything new either.
Vendors today use what other people did and improve or adapt designs to their application. Called FREE Market! Cummins has benifited by other peoples discoveries as well as all of us at one point or another.
Been awhile since I looked through these posts, JohnE is correct. PI did the first for race applications and has now made it to the street here in the '90's. Technology is much older than that though I'd say over 25 years. The reason vendors are coming out with them is for obvious reasons but are by no means patented. As I dought their design is much different. Vendors workout deals with manufactures to produce their products for them and only them under contract, i. e. DTT and TCS. Yes Bill K doesn't build/manufactur his own either nor is his design's revolutionary or original.
Ford Rangers actually came with one stock for awhile with "square tabs", so ATS is not doing anything new either.
Vendors today use what other people did and improve or adapt designs to their application. Called FREE Market! Cummins has benifited by other peoples discoveries as well as all of us at one point or another.
- Status
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
Turbo Diesel Register
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
