Who makes the latest greatest twins and injectors?

[csutton7]

Nathan--curious to know what issues you had specifically when using the BB--chris

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I tried a turbo about like a HX40 but with a smaller exhaust housing around a 12cm size. I also tried one bigger with the same exhaust housing. I used a Turbonetics New Gen wastegate. I ran with the heaviest spring shimmed alone, with air actuation, and air holding the wastegate closed. It all sucked for drivability. Been there done that.



I know a little about twin sets myself Mark. I was building them before you so I know a little about tuning twins and what works and what doesn't.

When exactly did you start building them? My first set was in Sept of '02.



I'm not looking to get into a ******* contest. I know I can build a BB to work well on a 24v. That is not to say that another turbo may work better. I'll agree that a faster spooling big turbo would be my preference. I have yet to hear what DevilDog is trying to accomplish. Does he tow? drag race? sled pull? all of the above? or just drag main on saturday night?



Your Setup with a 40 like turbo and the big external gate was close but a KS-B1 should be faster and would flow enough to help light the BB, or the like, sooner than an HX-40. The problem is that without the two turbos to compare side by side it's all speculative.



The cool part about having your own shop and building lots of different setups is that you get to try a lot of stuff that you wouldn't do for yourself. Be it because of funding or that the ones you have already work. You get pressured to try the latest and greatest. I've built twins in at least 14 different combinations that I can name off the top of my head.





My next endeavor is VGT twins. I have been tasked by a TDR member to try. Wish me luck



Later,

Mark

 

[Idaho CTD]

Chris,



I didn't really have problems or issues. The set up made a lot of power. I personally dont like to give up the drivability of the B2 for the BB even though I made 10hp more. Having to shift down to keep egt's in check towing any trailer isn't worth 10hp to me. There are a lot better turbo options but they just cost more $$. I'll have one of those high $$ turbos here shortly to try out. Now I just have to figure out what I'm going to use above it.



BTW I was talking to Ken when you called today

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Chris,



I didn't really have problems or issues. The set up made a lot of power. I personally dont like to give up the drivability of the B2 for the BB even though I made 10hp more. Having to shift down to keep egt's in check towing any trailer isn't worth 10hp to me. There are a lot better turbo options but they just cost more $$. I'll have one of those high $$ turbos here shortly to try out. Now I just have to figure out what I'm going to use above it.



BTW I was talking to Ken when you called today

I haven't talked to Ken in a month or two. What's he got up his sleeve lately?

 

[csutton7]

nathan--yea could be tuff in a towing situation---were they in a manual or auto--



I'll let you know what I think of my new combo when I get it together, but you will probably beat me to it--



mark--you know we give up no secrets here on the 'nut

 

[Idaho CTD]

Mark,



A smaller turbo/tighter housing on top will only do so much to improve spool up. There is no way to make a BB spool anywhere near as fast as a B2. The rotating assembly is way too heavy, simple physics will tell you that. So you put a KSB1 over a B2 and compare it to a KSB1/BB combo. The BB combo wont be even close in spool up. A HX35 over a BB might get you 100rpm's faster but it will suffer on the top. What you make up somewhere you lose somewhere else. Now going to a turbo different then a BB or a tighter exhaust housing on the BB is a whole different story. Like I told Chris there are better turbos out there they just cost more.

 

[Idaho CTD]

It was in my auto Chris.

 

[Dl5treez]

Guys,



Remember there are many people reading this thread besides those of us who are posting on it.



Any sharing of information that we/you might take as "Duh I knew that" could be an epiphany to someone looking for information.



Keep in mind this thread started as a request for twin turbocharger information, and the more we get the better.



Thanks!



Dan-

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

nathan--yea could be tuff in a towing situation---were they in a manual or auto--



mark--you know we give up no secrets here on the 'nut

That's ok, He built some turbos to try in in a twin setup without an external gate and I need to give him some feedback.



They were a less exotic s-300 hybrid (B1-like) and a B2. they drive really well but boost is not controllable above 450-500 hp. They looked great, were easy to build but netted a bit less of the adjustablility I'm accustomed to.

 

[csutton7]

I emailed Ken today with a list of questions about possible upgrades--then I called him, but I see I don't have the spool that you do as I got wastegated---chris

 

[csutton7]

I'll be going to a 50mm divorced wastegate to see what difference that makes--my only prob may be I'm doing other things also and not sure what will arrive first to get installed--I'm hoping it's the super steroid B1 turbo so that I can compare, before I do the other stuff---chris

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Mark,



A smaller turbo/tighter housing on top will only do so much to improve spool up. There is no way to make a BB spool anywhere near as fast as a B2. The rotating assembly is way too heavy, simple physics will tell you that. So you put a KSB1 over a B2 and compare it to a KSB1/BB combo. The BB combo wont be even close in spool up. A HX35 over a BB might get you 100rpm's faster but it will suffer on the top. What you make up somewhere you lose somewhere else. Now going to a turbo different then a BB or a tighter exhaust housing on the BB is a whole different story. Like I told Chris there are better turbos out there they just cost more.

well said!



I agree. I would like to try a BB-ish turbo with a smaller exhaust housing.



I have a hy-9 and a KS-B2 on my daily driver. I like the smaller housing on the big turbo.



I wonder if a smaller housing on the BB will net more or less power. Will the slight increase in drive pressure be offset with adequate amounts of air in the intake tract?



where did I stash ken's cell #????

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I'll be going to a 50mm divorced wastegate to see what difference that makes--my only prob may be I'm doing other things also and not sure what will arrive first to get installed--I'm hoping it's the super steroid B1 turbo so that I can compare, before I do the other stuff---chris

Are you adding a divorced gate or making it bigger?



If you are adding it... Just make sure the waste gate dumps before the big turbo ( I assume you know this but some others may not) and the angle that the wastegate discharge re-enters the exhaust flow needs to be as gradual as possible. the flow is better (obvious) and at steep angles (nearing 90*) heat expansion WILL cause cracking.

 

[Idaho CTD]

Chris,



I made 60psi on a Dynojet with the BB combo and 68psi or so on the street. With my original B2 set up I made 56psi on the dyno and 75psi on the street. It just took more rpm's to get to that boost and hp with the BB combo. That give you peaky power which= less drivability. Non wastegated twins work well on the bottom end but suffer big time on the top as drive pressure goes crazy.

 

[csutton7]

the original set up used the standard B1 wastegate--this will be divorced and yes I do know what you stated, but good to point it out to others---

 

[csutton7]

I could peg 86 lbs on the street and I think 72 was the best on the dyno---I really have no issues driving, but I don't tow and as long as I get to where I need to be I'm ok, but really I don't think it's that bad--but one has to keep in their head that it's not a small single set up anymore--



studded head, B1/BB, Nowel super injectors(which I have no info on), double oringed with receiver grooves

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

You're gonna love the new gate! I'm betting you'll have less boost, more HP, better midrange spoolup(the big turbo will run harder), and lower EGT's.

 

[Idaho CTD]

well said!



I agree. I would like to try a BB-ish turbo with a smaller exhaust housing.



I have a hy-9 and a KS-B2 on my daily driver. I like the smaller housing on the big turbo.



I wonder if a smaller housing on the BB will net more or less power. Will the slight increase in drive pressure be offset with adequate amounts of air in the intake tract?



where did I stash ken's cell #????

It depends on when the air is delivered. If it comes in too late for the peak fueling with a standard BB then a tighter housing on a BB would most likely net more hp (and drive a ton better) even if the drive pressure is higher.

 

[Idaho CTD]

I could peg 86 lbs on the street and I think 72 was the best on the dyno---I really have no issues driving, but I don't tow and as long as I get to where I need to be I'm ok, but really I don't think it's that bad--but one has to keep in their head that it's not a small single set up anymore--



studded head, B1/BB, Nowel super injectors(which I have no info on), double oringed with receiver grooves

Was that on fuel or with NOS Chris? Any idea what the BB was doing for boost?

 

[csutton7]

well I have two B1 ones to play with--the super steroid and then I'll probably try the standard B1 if I don't like that and go from there with different the different housings--but I'm hoping with divorced waste gate and the super steroid i'll have what I want--chris