Who's had gelling with ULSD???

[MMiller]

Of the guys that have not had problems, do you know for sure you are getting true #2 diesel? I can't see that Maine, Minnesota, Michigan, and places like that don't add #1 fuel and mix it healthy to keep things running. I had troubles with #2 ULSD, and gelled up twice on PS. I found a supplier with some #1 Red fuel, added it to my ULSD and no more problems. Since then I've burned a tank of ULSD that is truely blended with some #1 ULSD. The fuel stations are reporting it is almost impossible to get #1 ULSD, and we always used to be blended fuel wise. We have had many troubles with any diesel gelling here in Iowa, OTR trucks, buses, pickups, farm tractors. It is getting difficult in places to buy fuel additive of any kind, and parts stores are selling diesel fuel filters like crazy. It has not even been real cold yet. 0*F or so, and it has not been very windy, or sub zero temps. If the temp would go down to -10*F and the wind blows 20 mph, I ain't leaving the house.

 

[fox]

Guys, I have a Sprinter van that gelled yesterday. We got it home but today it did it again. 911 solved it.

 

[AndrewGray]

During the last single digit above zero and 25 below zero blast we had problems. I have been runnin #2 with power service and 2 stroke in my cummins and no problems. But at the feedlot both d-maxs with power service gelled. Had to put them in the heated shop and change filters and 911 and put 10 gallons of #1 in to get them goin. From then on we only run #1 in them. The older John Deere tractors with the fuel tanks in front gelled up as well. They had some power service in also. What a pita!! Now if its below 10 above durin the day its only #1 and power service in all the equipment. Our 2500 gal fuel supply tank has #2 in it and it wont pump fuel at under 10 above either. Plugs the filter up.

 

[monkeyman]

I had no problem with my truck with temps minus 10. Running 911 additive though. Pressure normal. however Espar waxed up and had to use a heat gun! (ULSD)



Rick

 

[JKinney]

I do not know if this is true, but... . I have a friend who owns a company that oversees all fuel offloading procedures in portland Me, His company does quality control, off loading safety and security. He drives a duramax. He informed me that all diesel in maine is irving and is processed out of ST. Johns NB. I discussed this thread with him as well as the pictures of the filters that were posted, and he informed me that the refineries in the states are taking to much of the kerosene right out of the oil because of the kerosene market. He told me that irving is very carefull not to do that.

 

[HBarlow]

As much as I hate to keep harping on a theme, some of us members who were dubious as to all the grand and wonderful claims being made for the ULSD were ridiculed and shouted down by a few big oil supporters here who opined that "all the oil companies are EXTREMELY careful to fully test their products before presenting them to their customers - after all, it's just good business to watch out the best interests of the consumers!"



What a crock of bull - and all those guys are sure VERY conspicuous by their silence and absence as we've seen the prophesied increased leaking seals and accelerated pump failures, now the fuel gelling at rates NOT meeting various test standards, and the newest revelation that past suitable additives used to extend gell point are no longer effective, some users needing up to 4 time the "normal" amount. Plus, we've also seen posted statements from those close to the refiners to the effect that the ULSD is entirely likely to shed even MORE wax at clouding and gell point than the LSD it replaced...



There has NOT YET EVER been a "fuel improvement", gas or diesel, that did NOT bring with it a full ration of grief, failures and added expense to the end user - and THAT'S a FACT!

Gary:



In your hostility towards "big oil companies" you seem to blame the oil industry for ULSD fuel. I hope everyone remembers that it was not the oil industry who initiated ULSD fuel, it was your friends in big government who knew better than we do what sort of fuel we need to burn in our diesel-powered vehicles.



Harvey

 

[steved]

Gary:



In your hostility towards "big oil companies" you seem to blame the oil industry for ULSD fuel. I hope everyone remembers that it was not the oil industry who initiated ULSD fuel, it was your friends in big government who knew better than we do what sort of fuel we need to burn in our diesel-powered vehicles.



Harvey

What Gary was getting at is that even though the formulation has changed, there is no reason we are seeing gelled fuel...



They knew this was long coming, and the big oil companies dropped the ball in testing and preventative maintenance on ULSD.



steved

 

[Strick69]

I don't see any "ball dropping". I am on ULSD and I do not use any additives yet my truck fires right up and has no problem. The highest temp here for the last 6 or 7 days has been 7 degrees. I still see a bunch of diesel powered vehicles running up and down the road, and have not heard of the trucking industry being shut down.

 

[Greenleaf]

After the supplier doped my 2,500 gallon tank with "something" ... ... ... ... ... ..... the fuel now flows. Prior to this, it did not. The converstaion revealed that fuel dryer anti-freeze was added. Methyl alcohol.



I have been told that this is not good stuff to use. However, when a fleet of buses will not operate, you gotta do something.



The injection pump shop sez you gotta use "Stanadyne" fuel conditioner... . and buy it from them.....



It's still 0°F @ 0600

 

[steved]

I don't see any "ball dropping". I am on ULSD and I do not use any additives yet my truck fires right up and has no problem. The highest temp here for the last 6 or 7 days has been 7 degrees. I still see a bunch of diesel powered vehicles running up and down the road, and have not heard of the trucking industry being shut down.

Well good for you, but I had problems at +5*F.



steved

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I don't see any "ball dropping". I am on ULSD and I do not use any additives yet my truck fires right up and has no problem. The highest temp here for the last 6 or 7 days has been 7 degrees. I still see a bunch of diesel powered vehicles running up and down the road, and have not heard of the trucking industry being shut down.

That sorta ignores the MANY obvious replies in this thread, and an easy dozen or so other similar threads seen on this board and over on the Cummins Forum. If you have been problem free, count your blessings - many others, including me are seeing problems at temps as high as 5 degrees unless we aggressively treat the fuel with anti-gelling additives - and what we don't know, is what extra steps all those 18-wheelers have been forced to do to KEEP "running up and down the road"...

 

[Strick69]

So the real problem is not ULSD then. It is either where you are getting your fuel or some other factor. If it was the fact the diesel is now ULS then everyone would be having problems.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

So the real problem is not ULSD then. It is either where you are getting your fuel or some other factor. If it was the fact the diesel is now ULS then everyone would be having problems.

Many of us have precious few options where we are able to buy fuel - we have a Shell distributor and a Leathers station here locally - that's IT, unless we take about a 250 mile round trip drive to another supplier.



Besides PART of the great ballyhoo over this new ULSD was that it was SUPPOSED to be so tightly tested and quality controlled that these sort of variations in performance across the country weren't supposed to happen.



And when some of us pointed out all past variations in diesel fuel quality and standards to the consumer - and that what comes out the pipes at the refinery is all too often different from what we see at the pump due to transport, storage and final distribution issues, the oil company supporters laughed at us and gave us a full ration of crap as to how all that was gonna change with the new stuff... :-laf



Who's laughing now?



It's clear you are having good local results you are satisfied with - and I'm sure we're all happy for you - but we're not all FROM your area, so your experience is worth the same as mine and each other member here - 1 vote...

 

[Alphacowboy]

sounds like to me a few distributors f-d up. I personally have not had any issues at all. Hell, my truck sat for 4 days in sub zero temps without being fired once in those 4 days. It popped right off with two cycles of the heating grids. It was -18*F that day I fired it up. It had been down to -26* a couple days when I was gone even. No fuel additive either.



Not to be an ***, but really , is this the first time you have heard of fuel gelling? Nope, every year I see people complaining of gelled fuel when it gets really cold. Go figure, this year, there is a "new" fuel and some people have issues with "it" gelling, YET, they cant prove "it" was the ULSD at fault. How do ya know that the supplier didnt fill the "blended" winter fuel tank with regular ol' #2 by accident? Something smells fishy about this, as everyone running this ULSD would have problems, yet not everyone is, its spotty. Being that its all over the place and doesnt seem to have effected EVERYONE, its a supplier issue. Like I said, sounds like a supplier forgot to blend the diesel before it left for your local watering hole.



Just my $. 02

 

[steved]

s Go figure, this year, there is a "new" fuel and some people have issues with "it" gelling, YET, they cant prove "it" was the ULSD at fault.

I can, I have every drop of fuel that has ran through my truck documented. I am 99% confident my issue (filter waxing) lies with ULSD. And besides, why would all at once, I need to run three times the additive to prevent issues?? And this is at temps above 0*F... I would not know what to do at temps below zero...



All we had around here (short the last BP station I have found) is ULSD. And, last year, I had absolutely no problem with any of the fuel around here... but I was running LSD.



I have not read of the volumes of people having issues in past years as I have this year... it is too coincidental to be anything but problems changing from LSD to ULSD... they haven't gotten the bugs worked out yet.



steved

 

[MMiller]

Not to be an ***, but really , is this the first time you have heard of fuel gelling? Nope, every year I see people complaining of gelled fuel when it gets really cold.

I worked on diesels for a living for the last 10 years, and have driven them daily for 15 years. Yes, there has always been gelling issues, but not on 18*F, sunny, windstill day like my first experience this winter, and not near the multitude that has been happening around here(Iowa).



I've talked with 3 fuel suppliers in my area, and two cannot get any #1 fuel from their supplier, and can barely get any kerosene. I talked with one today, and his supplier is blaming it on ULSD. Now tell me, why would a fuel supplier say this if it weren't true? There is two trucking companies, and 1 filling station(blended 50/50 NO BIO), in our area that their winter fuel won't even pump out of the tanks. The filling station I was at today listed off many more that were having problems.



My $. 02 is this is a MUCH larger problem then in the past. When I pulled the filter off my truck that was gelled, and it set for a week in my garage, and 3 days in temps over 50*F and the gell was still present, this is wrong. When we can't get fuel filters to flow after gelling, they HAVE to be replaced, this is a problem different then before. When I only was able to get 200 miles on a filter and it was gelled again, this indicates a problem. When my dad goes to three different stores looking for fuel additive, and the first two are sold out, and he buys the last bottle at the third, this indicates a problem... ... ... ... Now what has changed since last year? Hmmmm, a new fuel formulation. In the past I've never been too shook up about getting fuel from anywhere. This winter I'm being very particular.



To the guys that have been having good luck, ask the place you get fuel what it exactly is, and ask if they have been having any problems. To the guys having good luck, good for you. You better get a spare filter, and extra conditioner and put them on the floor of your truck just in case. I'm no dummy, and I'm struggling to keep my diesels running. Its not really that cold yet either!



Michael

 

[ROADWARRIOR]

One of my relatives has 4 trucks on the road. He said he has had problems with all of them gelling up that were fueled from non local sources. I also know when I went to get some Power Service for him at Farm and Fleet, they were sold out and Wal-mart was running low. After reading Greanleaf's post, I now wonder if maybe our local fuel supplier is just adding some sort of alcohol based additive that will cost us in the long run.



Dan

 

[Silver Bullet Ram]

Might as well switch to biodiesel. What does a gelled filter look like?



Gary

 

[Champane Flight]

After all the crap...

I personally ran a cloud point/pour point test on our ULSD, the refinerys test sheets claim it has changed very little from LSD, from -25 on the high side to -10 on the low side. I found that cloud point was sitting right at -18, pour point -22. This was on a random batch, but other characteristics were the same on all I have seen.



If you are having troubles with this fuel it may be another area than gelling, our cetane levels have taken a dump this winter, from 45-47, down to 41 in some batchs. Of course the first thing you think of is gelling. Additives are just fine for short term, but think about blending #1 in your fuel source if you are going to be in the deep freeze for an extended period. A good fifty/fifty blend should take care of most southern climates, if you live in Yellowknife, run straight #1..... Not many outfits carry it check your local wholesaler, you won't find it at the 7-11.

 

[Silver Bullet Ram]

What about farm diesel?