Who's making 500+ HP

[Piers]

BD meaning Bully Dog, sorry, should have seen that would cause confusion

 

[Jeff_K]

Piers,

Have you guys had similar success with the Downloaders and TST stack on 2003/04 trucks? I am trying to find the best stack for my TST and am tossing around the BDDL and VA3. 1 which you guys were out of both when I was there last week! Which one should I get? or should I get both and stck all 3?

 

[DLeno]

I just dyno'd at May Maddness, stock injectors, PDR cam & twins, TST & BD power modules. Made 587hp @ 32. 9lbs boost and 1014 on the pyro.

well there's the answer to my question. So Piers, is the downloader on its towing or perhaps the performance download? since you were not running a pressure box, the downloader would contribute there, and also perhaps a little timing. Given your results, my gut tells me that the downloader might be marginally better than a straight pressure box with the TST, and that the rest of your power comes from the cam?

 

[smokejunkie]

I just dyno'd at May Maddness, stock injectors, PDR cam & twins, TST & BD power modules. Made 587hp @ 32. 9lbs boost and 1014 on the pyro.

Piers,

Earlier in this threat someone posted that you were over 700 at the dyno at your shop the other day with this same setup you used in Vegas plus some "radical injectors" any truth to this?

 

[Piers]

Yes, we hit 738 on the dyno, but I felt the injectors were a bit too much to be towing a 5th wheel on a 6000K round trip, we will be trying them again, just wasn't enough time... is there ever, to get it setup right, before heading out.

 

[Diesel Nut]

Whose injector were you running? Did you get any street time with these things? Please, more info!

 

[Tomeygun]

Whose injector were you running? Did you get any street time with these things? Please, more info!

Ahh ha! - The million dollar question... Inquiring minds want to know

 

[JStieger]

Actually, the 555 seems to make power easier. To get to 500rwhp, we used:



On our 03 555/HO 6-speed:



DD Stage 3 injectors

EZ module

DD turbo kit

DD pusher pump kit

Made 503rwhp



On or 04. 5/600 HO 6-speed:



DD Stage 2 injectors

Edge Juice/Attitude

EZ module

DD Turbo kit

Made 501rwhp



That being said, the 555 should make even more power when you stack a pulse/duration box with the rest of the components listed above.

Need to bring this topic up again!



With all the discussion on the various diesel boards about high rail pressure and injector damage, is it different running higher pressure box settings with aftermarket injectors versus stock injectors. I. e. , with bigger holed injectors or injectors with more holes, the pressure doesn't build up as much in the rail during aggresive driving? I just installed a used DD TTPM, but only running on setting 3, based on information gained from people posting about high pressure with STOCK injectors and the EZ box. However, I wouldn't mind trying setting 4 for extended periods of time once I get bored with "3"



Also, unless the CP3 can keep up, are we limited to the lower juice settings with aftermarket injectors?

 

[KLockliear]

The TTPM was programmed to offer safe pressures on level 4. This is why we never used the original Edge levels 5 & 6, and urged others not to either. On your 03 truck, the CP3 will keep up with Stage 3 injectors and the EZ without a problem. We found the limits of the CP3 was around 560rwhp with no drugs and no duration/timing changes.

 

[ThomasLawrence]

We found the limits of the CP3 was around 560rwhp with no drugs and no duration/timing changes.

Well, it's not really a CP3 limit per se, but more of a pressure limit. Without timing/duration changes, there's only so much fuel you can squirt. The CP3 can put out enough fuel for at least 620-630HP (and probably more), as evidenced by several dyno runs that Don @ F1 Diesel has done (EDM injectors, TST box, and a mile pressure box).



Also, Don has provided images of injectors that have been damaged with an EZ running at level 4. Nothing catastrophic, but enough to affect mileage some.



With my admittedly limited testing, it seems that the pressure box is more useful on the low-end of the RPM range, to "push the curve up" on the dyno, moreso than increasing the peak power (when stacked with a TST, or Juice, that is).



What would be IDEAL would be a pressure box that would fuel hard at low RPMs, and reduce down to just-above-stock levels at peak RPM (ie. where the CP3 is cranking out it's max pressure). That would give you the low-end "oomph" to get the turbo(s) spooled up quick, but back off so as not to go too crazy on the rail pressure, thereby keeping the injectors healthy.



-Tom

 

[DLeno]

What would be IDEAL would be a pressure box that would fuel hard at low RPMs, and reduce down to just-above-stock levels at peak RPM (ie. where the CP3 is cranking out it's max pressure). That would give you the low-end "oomph" to get the turbo(s) spooled up quick, but back off so as not to go too crazy on the rail pressure, thereby keeping the injectors healthy.

-Tom

you just described the VA C3. 1



P. S. someone mentioned TST and enough air will get you 500. its true. The test truck used in the fueling box article series just made 497 uncorrected HP on the dynojet with stock injectors, stock cam, TST on 7/7 (no downloader), and the ATS aurora 5000 single. those results are coming in TDR issue 49 -- Doug

 

[JStieger]

The TTPM was programmed to offer safe pressures on level 4. This is why we never used the original Edge levels 5 & 6, and urged others not to either. On your 03 truck, the CP3 will keep up with Stage 3 injectors and the EZ without a problem. We found the limits of the CP3 was around 560rwhp with no drugs and no duration/timing changes.

Keith-



Thanks for the response. That would explain the paperwork I received with the TTPM (dated 2002!): "4" = 65 HP on TTPM versus 70 HP for the EZ on the current Edge website.



So "4" it is starting tomorrow after work!



Tom-



Those pictures were for stock injectors though; I was just curious if the pressures would do the same thing on the aftermarket injectors with bigger and/or more holes, i. e. , Less chance to "build" high pressure during high fuel demand conditions. However, I wouldn't put it past me if I missed a concept here. BTW, did I ever tell you your shop rocks! I wish I could have one like that.



Doug-



I have the VA C3. 1 and love it due to the low end, but on the top end it does lose some/lots of oomph due to the way it's programmed based on all my dynos with it as well as the SOP meter. I can see the difference already in the EGT by comparing the VA versus TTPM at WOT in the upper rpms. The TTPM definitely does not feel to fall off in the upper rpm's so I'm expecting some pretty flat dyno curves when I try it out at the Bully Dog Dog Days 7/9. I've read that the Ramifier fuels hard at the lower rpm and doesn't let off in the upper, but it's 100 HP from pressure alone. But then I'm back to my confusion on 100 HP pressure on stock injectors versus aftermarket.



Thinking out loud: I guess if I understand Keith and Tom correctly then we're just working the CP3 towards "balls to the wall" (100% :-laf ) to maintain the required rail pressure for "proper" common rail operation.

 

[DLeno]

I have the VA C3. 1 and love it due to the low end, but on the top end it does lose some/lots of oomph due to the way it's programmed based on all my dynos with it as well as the SOP meter. I can see the difference already in the EGT by comparing the VA versus TTPM at WOT in the upper rpms. The TTPM definitely does not feel to fall off in the upper rpm's so I'm expecting some pretty flat dyno curves when I try it out at the Bully Dog Dog Days 7/9. I've read that the Ramifier fuels hard at the lower rpm and doesn't let off in the upper, but it's 100 HP from pressure alone. But then I'm back to my confusion on 100 HP pressure on stock injectors versus aftermarket.

yup, you're right, but thats the natural consequence (and what it means) for a fueling box to "fuel hard at low RPMs, and reduce down to just-above-stock levels at peak RPM", (the ThomasLawrence ideal pressure box). I was just pointing out that what he described already exists (with all the consequences thereunto appertaining)!



and yea, I've extensively tested both the VA and the TTPM as well (see TDR issue 48). The TTPM definately keeps on going where the VA backs off. TTPM keeps max rail pressures below approximately 28,000 and the VA keeps rail pressures at about 26,100 (somebody at VA knew what they were doing. thats the limit of the on board pressure sender). That extra 2,000 psi rail accounts for the peak (high rpm) horsepower difference between the VA and the TTPM. Rough (back of the napkin) estimates of course. but you see my point: you cant have a fueling box back off and yet expect it to keep going.



There are other ways besides pressure to fuel hard at the low end. Duration, for example. TST does it with their twins program. Edge could do it with the Juice if they wanted. But if you already have a duration box and you want to fatten up the low end (say, you have an off-the-shelf TST or Juice), then a stack with the VA C3. 1 or a customized Ramifier would probably work.



larger injectors will tend reduce operating rail pressure for the same power output (less pressure is requried to deliver the same amount of fuel) or or course raise power ouput for the same rail pressure.

 

[dan shss]

Just wanted to bring this one back to the top,,Please post what your running to get your power...

 

[Tomeygun]

Just wanted to bring this one back to the top,,Please post what your running to get your power...

Well even though I did not hit 500, It throw out my bag'o mods to get to 496



Add:

03 SO motor

TST with singles program (at the time)

EZ on level 2

Sledpuller 66 by HTTurbo

Dpp Fuel pump

AFE intake

open Exh

SB clutch Con-OFE

Black wheels



Stir fast and serve hot

 

[BIG BOB]

I'm real close, but not there yet.



This weekend at PDR Dynomania, Ghost Rider laid down 497. 9 HP. No torque on any of the dyno runs. Here are my mods:



HOT Juice with Attitude, B1-2-03 turbo, DTT transmission with 89% converter, AirAid Intake, my own torque tube and a 51" Nelson muffler. I have the 555 CTD engine.



At Diesel Thunder on August 20th, we laid down 489. 8 HP and 942. 3 TQ.

 

[BIG BOB]

Here is a copy of my dyno run:



#ad




Remember, the torque numbers are not correct. The HP are the top lines. I made 2 runs, one in overdrive for 480 HP and one with overdrive locked out for a 1 to 1 ratio giving me 497. 9 HP.



One thing about the Hot Juice is peak HP was about 2400 RPMs. It sustained 480+ HP from ab. out 2270 RPMs all the way to 2700 RPMs.

 

[BradyWilliams]

RE: 500+ hp

The question about 04. 5-05 Dodge Injectors. We have them exchange and already turned up. The Injectors are rebuilt and come in Stage 2 and Stage 3. We like Stage 3 Injectors in our truck. As far as running over 500 hp We have two trucks that run over 500hp #1 truck is my truck that I have listed in my signature what I run. #2 truck is Brady's truck that has less items than mine. He has TST 2 piece manifold, Air raid intake, TST CR Power Max, Hogg 4" stainless Turbo back Dual Exhaust. Snow Water/Meth--only 1 jet, Industrial Injection Super Phat Shaft 66 Turbo. Dynoed 568hp at Bully Dog, Dynoed 562hp at Dr. Gas, and 510hp at Edge on the super flow dyno. (Weekend on the edge) The operator's of the Dyno said that their Dyno is off compared to other dynos in the area about 100hp but I think the difference is probably the compensation factor that was 0. My truck was off exactly by the comp. factor. If you need some help in your quest we can help. Thanks 1-800-955-0476 Dyno run sheets available for viewing at www.industrialinjection.com

 

[jwilliams3]

526hp/977ft lbs on stock injectors, diesel only and ONE turbo!

 

[lmills]

598/1108 on a similar set up to what Pier's mentioned minus the cam and injectors.