Why all the new Diesel Vehicles???

[DHerzog]

I just got the new issue of "Diesel Power" magazine, and I have been reading about all the new diesel cars and trucks that are in the works... . I've seen several articles like this recently...



I did'nt know that there was such an upturn toward diesel power in the United States.



Are we going to start relying on diesel instead of ethanol or something else???



Did I miss some major new breakthrough????

 

[GFrance]

Probabley because they are more enviormentaly friendly. That is untill you start adding bigger sticks, fueling boxes, etc. :-laf

 

[RustyJC]

Many of the European diesels couldn't be brought over until ULSD became available in the U. S.



Rusty

 

[DHerzog]

SO with the ULSD the foreign cars can compete... . so, that gives us more drivers wanting diesel, creating a higher demand, and the price goes way up???

 

[RustyJC]

If demand goes up and supply is held constant, that's what Economics 101 says will happen.



Rusty

 

[DHerzog]

Swell... . with everyone wanting diesel fuel, gas should go back to $. 99 a gallon and I can drive my Town Car everywhere... .

 

[jtwcummins]

FYI:

DC is selling a diesel version of the Chrysler 300 in Europe with a diesel. It has close the the same HP as the American v6 and 100 lb-ft more torque. Fuel economy is 35 mpg. . With modern diesels quiet and performance are very good. I would buy one!

 

[BK]

And thanks to the p/u truck diesel HP war the US people no longer see a diesel as that old Mercedes that blows black smoke and can't merge on to the expressway.



But the Noisey part was still an issue.



The old stigma of a diesel is finally gone.

And I think it's all thanks to Dodge/Cummins.



It started the Diesel p/u truck HP war, and made the others improve theirs, and Cummins further refine the ISB... so now it's not noisey either.



There's 20 - 30% more BTUs in a gallon of diesel then there is in gas.

And diesel engines can be made to run more efficient than a gas engine.

So that makes a diesel is the engine of choice for a hybrid.

Anyone hear more about hybrids lately???



I took part in an industry wide seminar with the big 3, Cummins, Cat, many other 2nd teir suppliers working on EV and Hybrid programs, back in 99.

And the biggest problem was, the big 3 would have to develope two hybrids. . one for the UK market (diesel) and one for the US market (gas). They didn't want todo that.

And wouldn't address the US market till they could bring a diesel into it.

So when ever you heard about a hybrid, like the Durango, it was for the UK market.

Well that time has finally come.





When they bring the Crud oil in , they either make different regional gas or different "grades" of diesel. With diesel, unlike the different blends of gas, all of the states will use the same diesel.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Many of the European diesels couldn't be brought over until ULSD became available in the U. S.

I have to call BS on that. No offense to you... I'm calling BS on that reason for keeping the Euro diesels out of the US.



Case in point - Volkswagen "Pump Deuse" TDIs and V-10 TDIs in the Touareg.

Another case in point - Jeep Liberty CRD



For the longest time, they "didn't want" to bring those over because of our high sulphur content fuel. We still don't have ULSD (until late '06) yet we have some extremely high tech European diesels that allegedly couldn't run on the US high sulphur diesel. The TDIs came over here virtually unchanged and the 2. 8L VM Motori engine is an updated version of one they've been running in Europe for many years.



Matt

 

[BK]

After the success of the P/Us the Liberty was a test case.

It did soo well, more to come.



There have always been a few diesels coming over from the UK to here. . not many but some. .



So no BS. Just marketing and wanting to do things once, not twice since they would sell MANY more gassers then diesels in the US.

Untill now. .







Back then, their hybrids for the US would have to be gassers to sell.

And Oil burners in the UK to sell.

And by far a diesel is the better choice for a hybrid.

They didn't want to have to do two hybrids. So they resisted.



I sat in and took part in the meetings for 2 days. . no BS. I was there.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I sat in and took part in the meetings for 2 days. . no BS. I was there.

Meetings with whom?



Matt

 

[Dieselnut59]

And thanks to the p/u truck diesel HP war the US people no longer see a diesel as that old Mercedes that blows black smoke and can't merge on to the expressway.



But the Noisey part was still an issue.



The old stigma of a diesel is finally gone.

And I think it's all thanks to Dodge/Cummins.



It started the Diesel p/u truck HP war, and made the others improve theirs, and Cummins further refine the ISB... so now it's not noisey either.



There's 20 - 30% more BTUs in a gallon of diesel then there is in gas.

And diesel engines can be made to run more efficient than a gas engine.

So that makes a diesel is the engine of choice for a hybrid.

Anyone hear more about hybrids lately???



I took part in an industry wide seminar with the big 3, Cummins, Cat, many other 2nd teir suppliers working on EV and Hybrid programs, back in 99.

And the biggest problem was, the big 3 would have to develope two hybrids. . one for the UK market (diesel) and one for the US market (gas). They didn't want todo that.

And wouldn't address the US market till they could bring a diesel into it.

So when ever you heard about a hybrid, like the Durango, it was for the UK market.

Well that time has finally come.





When they bring the Crud oil in , they either make different regional gas or different "grades" of diesel. With diesel, unlike the different blends of gas, all of the states will use the same diesel.

EXACTLY!!

Going to check out the E320 CDI Mercedes (same inline 6 common rail diesel engine they run in Germany) before Mercedes changes the diesel offering to a V-6 ( :{ ) for '07. YUCK!!

The E320 CDI is actually AS QUIET as the gasser and has BETTER acceleration and (of course) fuel economy @37 mpg.

 

[BK]

Meetings with whom?



Matt

Chevy, Dodge, Ford, Delphi, Visteon, Cummins, Cat, and a dozen other tier 2 and tier 3 suppliers.

It was a 2 day meeting in Michigan on HEV and EV for personal and mass transit. It was a brain storming session of why, what, where and when.

This was back in like 99 or 00 or so...

 

[4xquadrod]

Anyone hear more about hybrids lately???

I heard (possible rumor) that when you have to replace the batteries in one of these, it will cost you between 8 to 10 thousand dollars! I bet if you don't ask, they won't tell you.

 

[BK]

Sorry, That was a rhetorical questions. . meaning we are hearing soo many things about hybrid SUV's finally.



But truth be told, when the Toyota's first came out, you are right. . they were up that much for a battery pack.

Expect life 8 years... warranty, 7. !

Cost is now down to about 2500 bucks.

And all recyclable and not a lead problem as with basic wet cells back in the days of pure EV. They are a lithium technology.



Back then Ford had a Molten sodium sulfur pack. I forget the temp it ran at internally, but say 1300deg... but only warm to the touch on the outside. When we reviewed it, me and my partner's first questions was... "Did ya forget about the Pinto or what?"...

That was a nightmare waiting to happen in a collision.

It died, thankfully.

 

[Dieselnut59]

Toyota prirus: 35-40 mpg, maybe a little more if you baby it. Added initial cost, more costly maintanence, less room in trunk because of battery pack, gutless on power, small and UGLY!!!



Volkswagon TDI: 45-50 mpg, maybe 40 if you DOG it! Lower initial cost, runs on common fuel, performs like a traditional small to mid size sedan, aftermarket power adding products available.



What is all the hybrid hype about???



We need DIESELS in more cars and SUV's!!

 

[BK]

Toyota prirus: 35-40 mpg, maybe a little more if you baby it. Added initial cost, more costly maintanence, less room in trunk because of battery pack, gutless on power, small and UGLY!!!



Volkswagon TDI: 45-50 mpg, maybe 40 if you DOG it! Lower initial cost, runs on common fuel, performs like a traditional small to mid size sedan, aftermarket power adding products available.



What is all the hybrid hype about???



We need DIESELS in more cars and SUV's!!

YUP. . I agree. .

 

[HoleshotHolset]

So if their reasoning for not giving us the Euro diesels was marketing, why did they claim it was the fuel? It's still BS...



We're on the verge of seeing some REALLY cool diesels come out on the market and I couldn't be happier.



The gas hybrids pollute less overall in some people's eyes... but once the EPA figures out that they're testing diesels unfairly (comparing them directly with gassers... ) things will change. That's pretty much the only reason that in 'CA-emissions states' you can't buy a new light-duty diesel car or SUV... and those are the states that need the fuel efficient diesels the most!



Matt

 

[RustyJC]

I have to call BS on that.

If many in this country are so concerned about eking the most amount of miles from a gallon of fuel, why hasn’t the modern diesel enjoyed the same success here as the hybrid? The easy answer would be the ghost of diesel’s past, particularly a bad batch of oil burners designed by Oldsmobile in the 1980’s.



The more complicated response is that Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel hasn’t been readily available in the U. S. like it is in Europe. This special blend of diesel contains less sulfur, which reduces emissions, but also allows for better emissions control systems to be used on a diesel engine. Fortunately ULSD will be the new standard in the U. S. come this fall. Some companies, like DaimlerChrysler, are waiting in the wings with 50-state approved diesels that are powerful, clean and get grand gas mileage. Will diesels finally become the eco-peer of hybrids? Who will be the first to marry the two in an ultra-efficient diesel hybrid production car? Time will tell, but we can all breathe easier knowing more green options are sprouting up every year.

Source for above HERE. This is one example. I can cite others if you wish.



Rusty

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Rusty:



Explain why the Pump Deuse TDIs made it over here (completely unchanged from the Euro spec... ) BEFORE we went to ULSD...



Matt