Why all the new Diesel Vehicles???

[RustyJC]

Rusty:



Explain why the Pump Deuse TDIs made it over here (completely unchanged from the Euro spec... ) BEFORE we went to ULSD...

And how many states can it not be sold in? More interesting reading:

Newport, R. I. -- Both Toyota and BMW see possibilities for introduction of diesel cars into the North American market but only if ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) also improves with consistently higher cetane and lower aromatics.



Toyota's novel "DPNR" system simultaneously slashes nitrogen oxides (NOx) and particulate matter (PM) with a novel "low-temperature combustion" scheme employing "massive" exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) and a combined PM/NOx trap.



But Toyota bluntly told the Diesel Engine Emissions Reduction (DEER) conference here (sponsored by U. S. Department of Energy) that U. S. diesel fuel is generally poor and highly variable on cetane/aromatics, making it harder to design an engine/emissions control scheme for North America.

Source for above HERE.



Rusty

 

[HoleshotHolset]

And how many states can it not be sold in?

MA, NY, VT, ME, CA - they all adhere to the rediculous CA emissions. So out of the 48 contiguous states, they can't sell 'em in 5 states. That still doesn't explain why we got the Pump Deuse TDIs BEFORE we got ULSD.



Matt

 

[RustyJC]

Obviously, it could meet the Federal EPA standards. As the cites I've posted point out, however, a number of other non-US-market diesels couldn't until the advent of better quality US diesel fuels - which is the topic of this thread. To wit: Why all the new diesel vehicles?



Rusty

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Obviously, it could meet the Federal EPA standards.

The Pump Deuse TDIs met the EPA standards years before they finally made it to the US... and the fuel stayed the same. When the EPA starts taking notes on the Euro emissions standards... things will get much better.



Matt

 

[RustyJC]

The Pump Deuse TDIs met the EPA standards years before they finally made it to the US... and the fuel stayed the same.

I didn't deny that, did I? I believe I said that obviously it could meet the Federal EPA standards, but a number of others can't until improved diesel fuel is available - as stated in my cites.

When the EPA starts taking notes on the Euro emissions standards... things will get much better.

Don't hold your breath (pun intended). Euro standards are restrictive on greenhouse gases because of their participation in the Kyoto accords. That's an area where diesels excel. US standards are restrictive on NOx and particulates - problem areas for diesels. Perhaps that will change, but I doubt it.



Rusty

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I didn't deny that, did I? I believe I said that obviously it could meet the Federal EPA standards, but a number of others can't until improved diesel fuel is available - as stated in my cites.

No - you're not denying it... but I'm trying to figure out who is. I guess it really doesn't matter in the end - we're getting the new Euro diesels very shortly. I'm just slightly miffed that we had to wait so long to get the Pump Deuse TDIs when we could have had them years ago... (we just got 'em in '04).

US standards are restrictive on NOx and particulates - problem areas for diesels. Perhaps that will change, but I doubt it.

Exactly! I know we're pretty much requesting the EPA to change its (very outdated) standards to be fair to diesels, but is that too much to ask?



Matt

 

[BK]

So if their reasoning for not giving us the Euro diesels was marketing, why did they claim it was the fuel? It's still BS...



We're on the verge of seeing some REALLY cool diesels come out on the market and I couldn't be happier.



The gas hybrids pollute less overall in some people's eyes... but once the EPA figures out that they're testing diesels unfairly (comparing them directly with gassers... ) things will change. That's pretty much the only reason that in 'CA-emissions states' you can't buy a new light-duty diesel car or SUV... and those are the states that need the fuel efficient diesels the most!



Matt

Matt, sorry , we're not talking apples and oranges, I see that now.

Marketing was the reason for the big 3 not to invest in trying do a hybrid back then... knowing diesels weren't accepted well here and they would have to do a gas hybrid.



I have to admit, I don't remember once the question or comments come up about the type of diesel fuel available during the conference.

If it was part of the reason for the big 3, it wasn't discussed. And at the time I didn't know any better.



Fuel sources and delivery/infrastructure was discussed when we got onto alternative fuels. Pricing/availability and such.

But diesel wasnt classified as an alternative fuel.

So if it was a deciding factor for them, it wasn't discussed.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

BK: Thanks for your input and sorry for the misunderstanding. I'd like to hear more of your experience from that meeting sometime. I kinda know where we are headed, but it would be good to know about the recent history...



Thanks,



Matt