Competition Why are 3rd Gen's slower at the track then 2nd Gen's (same mods)

[BigDan]

Hey im by no means a professional but the 03+ Trucks are slow. My old truck 215HP 1999 Stock w/ DTT transmission and Edge Drag comp would run constant 14. 6. I see guys with 3G's running similar boxes not being anywhere close to that even though there Stock HP is 300+ and there boxes claim 150+



When I stepped up and threw on my Mach 5's w/ the stock HX35 it was a rocket, even at 1600'



I know both make good power 500HP+ but it seems 24V's always are quicker at the track. Just a guess but Id bet my old truck would smoke a 500HP 3rd Gen at the track even though he would have 100hp on me.



Now that I have a 2003 I think I will just keep it stock to mild because it seems to take a miricle to hit high to mid 12's. Yet my old 99 w/ Mach 7's Redline box and b1/b2 twins would be high 11's and 615HP+



I not going to be racing anymore but I still wanted to know if that is true... . 3g's will always be slower then 24v's ??????



Any thought and input welcome



P. S Its would be smarter to build up a 12 or 24 valve if you want to be in the 12's or high 11's streetable and not insane.



Thanks

 

[jdooner]

BIG DAN... ... How are you feeling, guy?

 

[JVolpe]

From my experience and what I have read, you are generally correct. But part of the difference up front is probably weight. My race weight with me in it is 7,400lbs. I think I have seen the comparable 2nd gens weigh a little less.



Next computer controls allow for plug in boxes to add big power potential, but also restrict applying that power in a fashion needed for drag racing.



But now that enough after market mods are out there, and enough experience with the 3rd gens, I think the 3rd gens will be pretty even in a weight to weight comparison.



Disclaimer: Not been caught being wrong yet today.

 

[mattymac]

It takes the aftermarket a while to work out all the bugs on these newer fuel systems. The 325 HP motors really dont have the option of an aftermarket injector except for extrude honed ones but for most people they are alot of money for a 80-100 HP gain compared to 150 for way less money and somthing that anyone can plug in. Plus the CP3's are just starting to surface, give em time and Ill bet anything the HPCR motors will walk all over any 24v when the aftermarket catches up.

 

[RCC]

jvolpe is right,the 3rd gens are heavier and that hurts on the track. I dont think the 3rd gens are slower at the same mods. I ran in the 12's when I was at the 530-540hp range. I ran 12. 40's at the 620hp range and now I am hoping to run down into the 11's when I get back to the track. I went this past sunday and broke my flexplate at the 60ft mark,that was great paying a wrecker to haul my truck 80 miles to the house.

 

[Diesel Power]

with the latest cp3 and other related mods we are puting down consisitent 11. 80-12. 50's with our trucks---depending on weight.

 

[RCC]

What 3rd gen has ran in the 11's?The fastest I have heard of was 12. 23et that was ran at indy last year.

 

[lmills]

jvolpe is right,the 3rd gens are heavier and that hurts on the track. I dont think the 3rd gens are slower at the same mods. I ran in the 12's when I was at the 530-540hp range. I ran 12. 40's at the 620hp range and now I am hoping to run down into the 11's when I get back to the track. I went this past sunday and broke my flexplate at the 60ft mark,that was great paying a wrecker to haul my truck 80 miles to the house.

Man, that has gotta suck.



Oh yeh, for what it's worth, I heard a rumor from bully dog that they have had there common rail in the 11's for quite some time now.

 

[TGibbs]

Isnt it true though too that if the 3rd gens have a stock transmission, then they are at a disadvantage there too because the stock transmission is limiting them where the 2nd gen has a fully built dtt and its transfering as much power as possible to the rear wheels?

 

[AK RAM]

I think it is mostly weight and aerodynamics. 3rd Gens are just a heavy truck. Park your 3rd Gen next to a 2nd Gen and look at the difference in frontal surface are. It is a lot greater on the 3rd Gen. Just bigger all around. Your pushing a lot more air and that hurts more than people think.

 

[BigDan]

Isnt it true though too that if the 3rd gens have a stock transmission, then they are at a disadvantage there too because the stock transmission is limiting them where the 2nd gen has a fully built dtt and its transfering as much power as possible to the rear wheels?

I heard that also. Like they have some kind of tq managment transmission controls. It will defuel the motor under cetian conditions. Its hard to build 20 psi at the staging lights and no lockup shifts.



It not a simple system unlike the 24V's..... I think

 

[WCounts]

The 03 quad cabs are heavier than the 02s. A regular cab will smoke a quad.

I believe when we have a pump that flowes enough fuel the 3rd gen will make the power with the right electronics.

My truck weighs 7000lbs. It takes a little more HP to stay with a older quad cab.

 

[Tomeygun]

It takes the aftermarket a while to work out all the bugs on these newer fuel systems. The 325 HP motors really dont have the option of an aftermarket injector except for extrude honed ones but for most people they are alot of money for a 80-100 HP gain compared to 150 for way less money and somthing that anyone can plug in. Plus the CP3's are just starting to surface, give em time and Ill bet anything the HPCR motors will walk all over any 24v when the aftermarket catches up.

ones things for sure, now that Don made a larger injector to do with the CP3's coming out, The HP is way easy to achieve.



I agree the 3rd gens are just starting to get going. Just give it 6 months, I bt 800hp HPCR will be ho-hum



Heck 500hp 3rd gens are soooooo old school now. Not even 600, its like you have to be like close to 700 to be considered a big-boy 3rd gen

crazy!

 

[Luke Warmwater]

Plus the CP3's are just starting to surface, give em time and Ill bet anything the HPCR motors will walk all over any 24v when the aftermarket catches up.

Yeah, kinda like the 24v did to the 12v when the aftermarket caught up... brilliant lol.

 

[BigDan]

I cant wait. Will we ever be able to have complete control of out computers, Redline increase, no defueling... ever, lockup control, top speed, ect, no transmission limitations...

 

[WCounts]

Looks like I need a pump like TomeyGun's

 

[mattymac]

Yeah, kinda like the 24v did to the 12v when the aftermarket caught up... brilliant lol.

I cant help it if the VP wasnt the best design for HP, especially compared to the P7100. The common rail is a superior design and has a huge ability to make hp, we just need to make it flow more volume, same with the P-pumps using bigger DV's and bigger plungers and barrels, we need more RPM's from our pump and a better way to control and maintain rail pressure, after that we will have basically an unlimited amount of fuel at the touch of a button. There are a few 3rd gens in the 12's and talk of some in the 11's, its been +-4 years and we are just now getting our pumps, in 97/98 what was the fastest 12v?

 

[Hohn]

I've said it before (on DTR) and I'll say it again:

Once the CP3 gets it's volume problems fixed, the 12V is dead. The HPCR is/will be king.

I'm no prophet, I've just been known to predict the future.....

 

[Tomeygun]

I cant help it if the VP wasnt the best design for HP, especially compared to the P7100. The common rail is a superior design and has a huge ability to make hp, we just need to make it flow more volume, same with the P-pumps using bigger DV's and bigger plungers and barrels, we need more RPM's from our pump and a better way to control and maintain rail pressure, after that we will have basically an unlimited amount of fuel at the touch of a button. There are a few 3rd gens in the 12's and talk of some in the 11's, its been +-4 years and we are just now getting our pumps, in 97/98 what was the fastest 12v?

The big thing I think we will see is that the commonrail can adjust timing on the fly. Where as the P7100 has to have timing set, and it dont think it can be changed in mid-pull or at mid-track.



Imagine Shieds truck but starting easy and idleing stock, But once the fuel is flowing and tires turning, the timing is jacked to 40* and at 5100 rpms, then she's makin' some serious power!!!!

 

[Sled Puller]

Hey, Hohn, click those ruby slippers three times and repeat, there is nothing like computer controlled trash, there is nothing like computer controlled trash,,there is nothing like computer controlled trash,... ... ... ..... :-laf



I'm sure the common rail will rule JUST like the 24 valves did after they were obsolete for a while... did I say obsolete? I meant to say out for a while.



I would love to be able to have adjustable timing on a P-pump, but I'm not going to trade the fuel volume and reliablity for this fanatasy stuff you guys have been dreaming about since 98. 5.



You would think as many times as our PCs crash, you would understand that computers don't hold up-especially in harsh environments under our hoods.