Why does this **** me off so bad?

[jtisdale]

These people gotta eat too, right? I mean, c'mon... I dont like to see any company go out of business. We should all be happy they are doing great, right? Setting all time high US records and stuff. congrats Exxon... you *intercoursers*



Exxon Mobil posts $40. 6 billion profit - Earnings - MSNBC.com

 

[catoiler]

Hmmmm that ought to tell you something!! Gee I wonder who they are ripping off to get that kind of numbers???? Oh yeh us!!!! Tea party time!!

 

[BrianJ]

No offense, but it drives me nuts when someone looks at a number and posts an opinion without taking the time to figure out what it really means and what the other components are. Yes, $40. 6B looks like an astronomical number to most, but you have to realize Exxon is one of worlds largest companies (was the largest last time I saw). WalMart, Costco, and many other large organization's profits are also measured with a "B", which also looks astronomical compared to "most" other business.



That $40. 6B profit by Exxon is a whopping 10% profit margin ($405B in revenues), and while certainly aided with the current price of oil and fuel, is more impacted by the tremendous worldwide demand, which is also at a record high. Most business when making decisions on capital look to make 15-20% on their investment, so 10% is certainly not out of line for a capital intensive organization such as Exxon.



$40. 6B in profit doesn't mean squat until you research and understand the other components.



Many say that "big oil" and OPEC are controlling and manipulating the price of oil, remember that when oil first went over $100/barrel a month or so ago it was an overzealous trader that wanted to be the first to make a trade over $100 that pushed the price. OPEC; well at last count about 25% of US oil imports are through OPEC producing countries. Yes, they have some control over the market by tweaking (or not tweaking) their production, but even OPEC is loosing some control of the world market to the investment banking community and traders. Just like any other commodity, the price of oil is set in large part by good ole' wall street, more so today than ever before.

 

[FOXY005]

No offense, but it drives me nuts when someone looks at a number and posts an opinion without taking the time to figure out what it really means and what the other components are.

Hmmmmmmm



Well riddle me this numbers guru's !



Why is Diesel which is at the bottom of the refining chain $ 0. 70 more than gasoline ?



The Home Heating Oil angle dosen't work this time of the year and neither does the ULSD angle cause I buy at a truck stop that still sells LSD 500 fuel.

 

[BrianJ]

Sticker might still say 500ppm fuel but from what I understand LSD has only been available for off-road fuels since at least 6 months ago, and that will be phased out completely in the next year, as ALL diesl fuels will have to meet the ULSD standards.



Diesel used to involve much less processing than gas, hence the big reason it was 20-30 cents cheaper, not so true now with ULSD. Diesel has always required 20% MORE crude per refined gallon than gas does.



Lets see, diesel refining process is more involved now for ULSD, plus (as always) it takes 20% more crude per gallon, that might just explain the turn around in price. Hmmm... lets add the increased demand for diesel world wide (military, China & India to mention a few) and we might just be on to something...

 

[BrianJ]

By the way, it's not just fuel... look at the costs of concrete and building supplies. Concrete has shot up like crazy the last few years, and while items like plywood have started to come down (in no small part due to the housing troubles in the US), they shot up like crazy over the last few years as well. Again, things like rebuilding Iraq and tremendous growth in China and India.

 

[scootergmc]

Like I always say, until America refuses to consume, we won't see a decrease. . Well, maybe after Bush is out of office... much like the hostage crisis re: Carter and Reagan... ...

 

[FOXY005]

Sticker might still say 500ppm fuel but from what I understand LSD has only been available for off-road fuels since at least 6 months ago, and that will be phased out completely in the next year, as ALL diesl fuels will have to meet the ULSD standards.



Diesel used to involve much less processing than gas, hence the big reason it was 20-30 cents cheaper, not so true now with ULSD. Diesel has always required 20% MORE crude per refined gallon than gas does.



Lets see, diesel refining process is more involved now for ULSD, plus (as always) it takes 20% more crude per gallon, that might just explain the turn around in price. Hmmm... lets add the increased demand for diesel world wide (military, China & India to mention a few) and we might just be on to something...

Yes Yes Yes Yada Yada Yada



From what I understand it dosen't have to be phased out till 2009 !



You seem to have all the facts, almost sounds like a Refinery PC Statement !

 

[catoiler]

yeh well my son in law's father works for a major refinery and I have a little more insight into it than you. their is so much waste to stack the numbers to show less profit. your right it is the greedy investors that are controling the price, that is why no utilitys should be allowed to be traded. but that is just a poor mans opinion!

 

[jtisdale]

No offense taken. After doing some research, I see the company I work for is ranked number 3 in top performers with a 1284. 5% profit increase since 2005. That makes me feel a lot better paying $4. 00/gal. for a fuel.

FORTUNE Global 500 2007: Top Performers, Top companies, Biggest Increase in Profits

 

[RGardner]

A very large part of the investments that Big oil has made was made years ago. On many of the wells, the original investment was recovered a long time ago.

 

[DJW]

Doubtful if we ever see reasonable expense for fuel again, China and India and their populations over one Billion, granted their wages are much lower than ours for now, but for some European countries their wages are now higher than ours. If at the start of the automobile age the price of fuel for Americans was about what the Europeans have always paid, today we would have the most efficient engines in the world. In the USA it has always been Cubes to attain power at the expense of engineering. It's only in recent years Americans have heard of MPG miles per gallon, the most important factor for most Europeans when deciding choice of car. Where the Japanese will design an engine to meet clean air dictates, few American car companies change engine design, they just add more gadgets to the decades old engines, thus causing poor performance and high fuel consumption. Pollution begins in the combustion chamber and that's where it has to be tackled.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The Enrons of the world have proven time and time again that the books are most certainly cooked - so I don't believe that 10% profit margin at all. Big Oil is so entrenched into our everyday lives and is heavily involved in lobbying politicians are two major factors that will prevent change from ever occurring. We've got very little clue how we'd survive without them and they know it.



Like others have said - our only solution is to use less petroleum. There's only so much of it in the ground, once she's gone - she's gone. We hit peak oil production years ago... so now might be a good time to start conserving what we got AND look into alternative energy sources.



Beers,



Matt

 

[BrianJ]

The only problem with that theory is that the likes of Enron "cooked" the books to look BETTER, not worse. Can't say that I have ever heard of a case where a company hid assets and profit, more likely they shuffle off balance sheet liabilities, etc. to impress wall street and BOOST their stock price.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

The only problem with that theory is that the likes of Enron "cooked" the books to look BETTER, not worse. Can't say that I have ever heard of a case where a company hid assets and profit, more likely they shuffle off balance sheet liabilities, etc. to impress wall street and BOOST their stock price.

Isnt that what the Clinton years were?



I was told that the Diesel was a less of an effort to make, (by a refining production worker) therefore costing us less at the pumps, which is how its been for years. Since the government enacted the law, saying that the trucking companies were allowed to pass on the cost of diesel (fuel/delivery) costs, via surcharge, the sky is the limit now for the cost of diesel fuel. For that same reason, you dont hear any of the trucking companies complaining about the cost of fuel, only the independents are suffering now, driving them out of business.



Unfortunately, we are at the mercy of the big oil companies, with that sucking sound of $$ coming out of our wallets.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The only problem with that theory is that the likes of Enron "cooked" the books to look BETTER, not worse. Can't say that I have ever heard of a case where a company hid assets and profit, more likely they shuffle off balance sheet liabilities, etc. to impress wall street and BOOST their stock price.

I think I painted that picture with too broad a brush. Enron was a bad comparison to Big Oil... but they were a great example of crooked accounting.



Why wouldn't there be benefits to hiding assets and profit? Less tax liability, better positioning for grants, loans, etc. Drug dealers and others involved with organized crime launder money all the time so as to not set off alarms... Why wouldn't a crooked company do the same thing?



Beers,



Matt

 

[BrianJ]

Why wouldn't a crooked company do the same thing?

I'll give you a few reasons for a public company like Exxon/Mobile...

Stock price

Stock options

Executive compensation tied to stock options

Shareholders

... you get the idea...

Why wouldn't there be benefits to hiding assets and profit? Less tax liability, better positioning for grants, loans, etc. Drug dealers and others involved with organized crime launder money all the time so as to not set off alarms...

I agree completely to the above, especially in a "non-public" organization. Problem is big oil is dominated by public organizations and I have yet to hear of any big "corporate fraud" case with a public company that hid assets or profit.

 

[Byershome]

Ah the wonderful sounds of children crying over spilled milk. It's to bad all you whiners don't wake up and realize that the cost of fuel is a result of ridiculous and insane government regulation and taxation but hey go on crying foul over those crooked oil companies and see where it gets you. You can put the wacko environmentalist kooks who continue to preach the "global warming" nonsense right at the top of the list too... ... hey but they know what is best for you, so go convert your food (corn) into fuel for your truck, continue to block oil exploration and the expansion of oil refining capacity... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . the oil companies, car manufacturers and Clintonista's of the world are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[WDaniels]

Don't want to irritate, flame or bust anyones butts here on this thread, but some of you guys really need to research just what drives the oil market in the U. S. . I'll give you a little hint. The Minister in Saudi Arabia said it best. " There is plenty of oil on the market, its your economy that is driving the price of oil higher". If you do some digging, it will be explained in full. And, if you think the price of gas is expensive here try England, Germany and others. I just came back from 2 months in Curacao where they get their oil from venezuela and refine it themselves and it is 3. 65 a gallon there.

Really, really sorry if I offended anyone.

WD

 

[obert]

3. 65 a gallon...

WD

How much of that is tax? And same ? for Europe. Shure, the price is a little higher in EU, but I understand fuel is taxed heavily over there, to the point that they really have the same or less cost for the fuel itself.