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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Why I said "To Hell with the K&N"
- Thread starter Chipstien
- Start Date
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- HoleshotHolset
- Replies: 5
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Wow. Is that dirt in the inlet tube? Is that wear on the turbo fins? If so, how often did you service the air filter element?
Too bad - but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see from your sig you didn't have NEARLY enough filter area for your flow demands - that, or ANY similar sized filter would be inadequate, hope the BHAF does better for you, I'm interested in one myself at some future point...
I went from stock airbox to K&N in the stk box, to the K&N Re-0880, to the BHAF.
Ran the bhaf for a year w/ the prefilter, replaced the bhaf, dumped the prefilter.
Just for grins & giggles, went back to the stock box, w/ oem paper filter, back to the BHAF, and now, the granddaddy Afe stage 2 MF intake with the proguard 7 filter of course.
You know. . for 40 bucks, that BHAF is hard to beat... Clean, and no oil.
Ran the bhaf for a year w/ the prefilter, replaced the bhaf, dumped the prefilter.
Just for grins & giggles, went back to the stock box, w/ oem paper filter, back to the BHAF, and now, the granddaddy Afe stage 2 MF intake with the proguard 7 filter of course.
You know. . for 40 bucks, that BHAF is hard to beat... Clean, and no oil.
My K&N WAS properly serviced and oiled. They (K&N's) went in the trash when my silicon (dirt) went from 5PPM (OEM filter) to 34PPM (K&N).
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I have been watching these K&N threads for some time thinking that with 2 different pre-filters I would catch the extra dirt that others were seeing come through the filter. Obviously I was wrong. I will say that nothing was done in the 15,000 miles that they were on but the one thing I do know is that I put the filter on with enough oil. I would hope that I wouldn't have to clean the filter sooner then 15000 miles when I live in the Seattle Washington area.
No there is no wear on the turbo, at least that you can see.
The one thing I will say is apparently Gary is right... ... Boost went up 2 psi with the BHAF so obviously the largest K&N to fit is still not big enough for this application. If that is the case then I don't see how the AFE kits are any better. Live and learn.
No there is no wear on the turbo, at least that you can see.
The one thing I will say is apparently Gary is right... ... Boost went up 2 psi with the BHAF so obviously the largest K&N to fit is still not big enough for this application. If that is the case then I don't see how the AFE kits are any better. Live and learn.When exposed to more airflow than designed for, paper elements distort, and may actually rip apart - VERY bad in a dirty environment - I actually destroyed an engine in that scenario. Oiled filters like the K&N will stay intact, but the excessive flow of air volume simply FORCES any dirt particles on thru the element material...
Keep in mind that with ZERO boost, our engines suck 360 cubic inches of air per cycle - at 14. 5 PSI boost, that volume doubles to 720 or so - and at 30 PSI, doubles again to about 1440 Cubic inches - and I'm pretty certian you run more peak boost than that to obtain your power ratings - and seriously doubt that K&N pictured is rated anywhere NEAR that figure! Not necessarily a bad filter - just a bad choice for your application - and you mighta been FAR worse off with a paper element - and you're right, ANY similar sized oiled element would undoubtedly have done the same thing!
Get the RIGHT, properly rated filter to match your requirements!
Keep in mind that with ZERO boost, our engines suck 360 cubic inches of air per cycle - at 14. 5 PSI boost, that volume doubles to 720 or so - and at 30 PSI, doubles again to about 1440 Cubic inches - and I'm pretty certian you run more peak boost than that to obtain your power ratings - and seriously doubt that K&N pictured is rated anywhere NEAR that figure! Not necessarily a bad filter - just a bad choice for your application - and you mighta been FAR worse off with a paper element - and you're right, ANY similar sized oiled element would undoubtedly have done the same thing!
Get the RIGHT, properly rated filter to match your requirements!
Chipstein
What are the two items in the forground of your first picture? Are they the pre filters? I have a K&N FIPK II and have never seen a set up like yours.
My Silicon was 3 ppm after 10,000 miles on Amsoil. Took my K&N off and inspected after 18,000 and other than slight oil residue in turbo intake, was very clean. My intake tube, which is smooth sided solid plastic had no residue or oil???
Any pictures of the new filter?
Rowland
What are the two items in the forground of your first picture? Are they the pre filters? I have a K&N FIPK II and have never seen a set up like yours.
My Silicon was 3 ppm after 10,000 miles on Amsoil. Took my K&N off and inspected after 18,000 and other than slight oil residue in turbo intake, was very clean. My intake tube, which is smooth sided solid plastic had no residue or oil???
Any pictures of the new filter?
Rowland
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"Have you ever heard of a BHAF ripping apart and being ingested?"
Rusty, we (*I*) aren't talking about the BHAF filters here (at least I don't see any reference by me, or anyone else in this thread who claimed the BHAF wasn't big enough) - only paper or oiled types that are NOT suitably sized to flow enough air under maximum loads such as Chip seems to be doing - as I said, *I* am considering installation of a BHAF at some point myelf...
Clearer?
The BHAF, I'm sure, are rated to flow FAR more than a stock paper filter, or a K&N as pictured in the lead photos in this thread.
Rusty, we (*I*) aren't talking about the BHAF filters here (at least I don't see any reference by me, or anyone else in this thread who claimed the BHAF wasn't big enough) - only paper or oiled types that are NOT suitably sized to flow enough air under maximum loads such as Chip seems to be doing - as I said, *I* am considering installation of a BHAF at some point myelf...
Clearer?
The BHAF, I'm sure, are rated to flow FAR more than a stock paper filter, or a K&N as pictured in the lead photos in this thread.
I think we're all on the same page now...
And no, I was NOT referring to the BHAF when I commented on "paper filters" - but ANY paper filter too small for the job, which I don't think is the case with the BHAF. Many guys look at the base displacement of their engines when buying/installing air filters - and fail to allow for potentially VAST increases in airflow demand due to the effects of turbocharging - most oiled filters do an excellent job of catching dirt particles as LONG AS they see the flow rates they are designed for - but EXCEED that rate by a significant anount, and not only will ambient dirt then be forcefully sucked thru the filter material, but it's entirely likely that a significant amount of already captured dirt will ALSO be sucked thru as well. The fabric material used in oiled filters possess a certain "elasticity", or ability to flex without excessive damage that paper filters don't - they simply buckle, and distort, possibly to the point of creating gaps at the airbox seals that allow even more dirt thru - or possibly even rip the paper element material, as happened on the motor I mentioned earlier...
And no, I was NOT referring to the BHAF when I commented on "paper filters" - but ANY paper filter too small for the job, which I don't think is the case with the BHAF. Many guys look at the base displacement of their engines when buying/installing air filters - and fail to allow for potentially VAST increases in airflow demand due to the effects of turbocharging - most oiled filters do an excellent job of catching dirt particles as LONG AS they see the flow rates they are designed for - but EXCEED that rate by a significant anount, and not only will ambient dirt then be forcefully sucked thru the filter material, but it's entirely likely that a significant amount of already captured dirt will ALSO be sucked thru as well. The fabric material used in oiled filters possess a certain "elasticity", or ability to flex without excessive damage that paper filters don't - they simply buckle, and distort, possibly to the point of creating gaps at the airbox seals that allow even more dirt thru - or possibly even rip the paper element material, as happened on the motor I mentioned earlier...
Re: Chipstein
The thing I don't understand is that the guys with twins are running K&Ns that are much smaller in terms of surface area then the 0880. They have to because of where the filter is located way down off the secondary turbo. Can't use a filter that is as long as the 0880... ... . I think.
Yes, they are the pre-filters. The red foam one is a K&N Airforce Pre-Cleaner. The black one is the K&N Pre-charger. Both are designed for use in dusty conditions. Even though I am not in dusty conditions I figured that the pre-filters could only help. Go here http://www.knfilters.com/wraps.htm and here http://www.knfilters.com/airforcewraps.htm to read more on the pre-filters. Odds are very good that they make it for your particular filter.
Just so happens that I do... ... .
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The thing I don't understand is that the guys with twins are running K&Ns that are much smaller in terms of surface area then the 0880. They have to because of where the filter is located way down off the secondary turbo. Can't use a filter that is as long as the 0880... ... . I think.
Yes, they are the pre-filters. The red foam one is a K&N Airforce Pre-Cleaner. The black one is the K&N Pre-charger. Both are designed for use in dusty conditions. Even though I am not in dusty conditions I figured that the pre-filters could only help. Go here http://www.knfilters.com/wraps.htm and here http://www.knfilters.com/airforcewraps.htm to read more on the pre-filters. Odds are very good that they make it for your particular filter.
Just so happens that I do... ... .
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JEEZE - those things ARE huge!
But effective... If I make the switch, I plan on using the Fleetguard Marine - a bit smaller, and waterproof filter element, as well as added filter element support structure...
But effective... If I make the switch, I plan on using the Fleetguard Marine - a bit smaller, and waterproof filter element, as well as added filter element support structure...
I had to drill my stock airbox to get enough air thru it anyway -
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so am already probably getting more underhood air than outside air - but you CAN still get a fair amount of outside air thru the same outside vent the stock filter uses - just need to fabricate some sort of enclosure to shield way engine heat, and try to encourage as much flow as possible from the fender vent...
so am already probably getting more underhood air than outside air - but you CAN still get a fair amount of outside air thru the same outside vent the stock filter uses - just need to fabricate some sort of enclosure to shield way engine heat, and try to encourage as much flow as possible from the fender vent...
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The other thing I liked about the Bhaf was the sound (or should I say, lack of it).
The stock airbox, has a hollow, echo chamber like sound, that almost amplifies the intake noise, so does the Afe intake IMO. You really hear the sound reverberate when the exhaust brake is on.
The K&N re-880, was just plain loud all the time, compared to the others.
The Bhaf, has a cleaner sound, hard to explain, but its like its NOT in an amplified echo enclosure, and not as bad on the downhills w/ the brake on. You do still hear the turbo when you get on it though. It also flows good.
The stock airbox, has a hollow, echo chamber like sound, that almost amplifies the intake noise, so does the Afe intake IMO. You really hear the sound reverberate when the exhaust brake is on.
The K&N re-880, was just plain loud all the time, compared to the others.
The Bhaf, has a cleaner sound, hard to explain, but its like its NOT in an amplified echo enclosure, and not as bad on the downhills w/ the brake on. You do still hear the turbo when you get on it though. It also flows good.
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