Why is my GCWR only 16k?

[AC]

I always thought that a 3500 with a Cummins had a GCWR of 20k with 3:54's. I'm looking in my owners manual and it says that a 3500 4x4 quad cab with a 5 speed and 3:54's max GCWR is only 16000 I have replaced the receiver hitch with a super hitch from tork lift rated to 15k. I have airlift bags and RS9000's and an exhaust brake. What's the weak link?

I suppose I'm another grossly over loaded weekend warrior With my cab over camper and my horse trailer I'm at 19 to 20k. It seems to handle very nicely so I'm surprised at the rating.



What do you think,



AC

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The added weight of the extra dually hardware, plus the 3. 54 gears reduce the GCWR - I think the 4. 10's are rated a bit higher...



My '02 quad cab 2x4 IS rated at 20,000 lbs tho...

 

[DPelletier]

... . which goes to show ya that the ratings are a little fishy to say the least. I'd of thought that any 3500 DRW would have a GCVWR of 20,000 or more. Mine is 21,000 GCVWR because of the 3. 73's. Same truck with 4. 10's is 23,000. I'm not one to advocate running over the legal limits, but I think you're fine. I'm at 17,800 GCW with my set-up



Dave

 

[AC]

What's different about the 99's or the 2k's with similar equiptment that their GCWR would be 4k more than mine? Was it the OEM receiver hitch that was the limiting factor? It just doesn't make sense.

AC

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Extra weight has nothing to do with GCVWR. It will reduce the amount of trailer you can tow because the truck will take up more of the GCVWR but won't reduce the GCVWR at all. A '98. 5 2500 QC LB 4x4 w/3. 54's also has a GCVWR of 16,000 lbs. If you have the 4. 10's it increases to 18,000 lbs for both of them. That tells me that everything on your truck is rated for 18,000 except for the drivetrain. With your upped power you've negated that difference IMO. If it were me I wouldn't be worried running at 19k. Legally it could be an issue however so you do need to consider that. Have you weighed your truck at the scales and gotten the axle weights? Axle weights are my primary concern. The front axle is rated at 4,850 lbs and we can nudge up pretty close to that. My front axle has 4,600 lbs on it when I am loaded up for a trip so I'm only 250 lbs below it's rating. That is the weakest link IMO.

 

[AC]

No I haven't weighed individual axels but I will before my next trip. I think you may be right about the front axel because looking in my book I see that the two wheel drive version of my truck has a 20k GCWR. Perhaps the front axel of a 2x4 is significantly stronger than mine. If that is the case, what can be done?



AC

 

[bmoeller]

Originally posted by AC

Perhaps the front axel of a 2x4 is significantly stronger than mine. If that is the case, what can be done?

The 4x4 front axle is heavier because the differential and other related parts needed to make it work.

 

[Snow man]

Wasnt there an issue from DC with those yr trucks being tagged with the wrong GCWR?. I thought the 16000 applied to the 3. 54/auto trucks only. Maybe im wrong but im pretty sure DC gave out a new towing chart with those trucks showing the correct GCWR was ideed 20K with either axle ratio and a 5 speed.

 

[RustyJC]

We ordered our truck specifically to tow our 13,500 lb 5th wheel within Dodge's ratings for legal reasons. We have a 10,500 lb GVWR and 21,500 lb GCWR (unique to 3500 with ETH/DEE/4. 10 rear axle). Towing a 13,500 lb 5th wheel with 2,700 lbs loaded pin weight, we hit the road at 10,380 lbs GVW and 21,180 lbs GCW.



Rusty

 

[amillstream]

Add your trucks GVWR and your trailers GVWR together and make sure you are licenced for that amount and you'll be fine. Forget about the combined rating from dodge, DOT will look at your door tag and trailer tag and combine these and then check to see if you have paid them enough money! (the more weight the more money they steal from you when you get your licence. )

 

[RollOver_Pete]

It amazes me how and why one could haul more with a lower gear ratio? 3. 54 vs. 4. 10... . Hmmmmm... . The weight isnt carried by the gears. So... . 3. 08, 3. 54, 4. 10, 4. 88 gears should'nt make a bit of difference. They don't hold up the load. That happens somewhere else. Driveability is the issue here. A lower gear(higher number) will make it easier to get a load moving. After that, its all about gear selection and how hard and fast you want to pull a load. If D. C. had their act together, they might make a 2 speed rear end. 4. 56 ratio to get the load moving, and after you get to direct you could shift the rear to high range... . 3. 73 for example... lower rpm's... less fuel... .

 

[RustyJC]

You can't haul more (GVWR) with a 4. 10 - you can pull more (GCWR) with a 4. 10. A 4. 10 reduces driveline torque ahead of the pinion gear by (3. 54 - 4. 10)/3. 54 = -15. 8% in comparison with 3. 54s under identical conditions (load & speed).



Rusty

 

[klenger]

Note that not all states register the vehicle for any weight ratings. In Colorado and Arizona, there is no mention what-so-ever what my weight ratings are.

 

[RollOver_Pete]

That being said Rusty, If one were to take a 20,000 lb. eaton rear out of a wercked Peterbilt along with a monster driveline, proper springs, brakes and tires... or just swap in a stronger driveline alltogether... would that leagally change the the rated GVWR and GCWR? 20,000 lbs. is the limit for a single axel. Just imagine. 40,000 lbs. GVWR if you had the right stuff.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I don't know of any way to legally change your GVWR and GCVWR. Those numbers are derived from the manufacturer taking into account all of the systems involved - frame, steering, suspension, brakes, axles, bearings, tires, engine, transmission, etc. AFAIK there is no way to legally change it even if you swap the parts from another truck, etc.



There were some problems with how some trucks were listed in the owners manual at some point but I don't recall what year and what models were affected. You may want to contact DC and verify what the numbers should be for your model - they may be wrong in the manual. I know there was a post about it on here at some point and I'll try to search around later and see if I can find it. Some people had DC send them a letter indicating the correct numbers to carry around in their glove boxes.

 

[Thomas]

I was one of those that extracted a letter from D/C showing a GCWR of 20,000 for my model year 2000 Ram 2500 quadcab longbed with 5-speed & 3. 54's. The window sticker and owners manual showed 16,000 lbs.



This thread (and probably others) will show some of the details.

 

[AC]

Thanks Thomas. I will try calling DC and see if there was some misprint. It's hard to believe that there is 4000 lb difference in GCWR between a 2x4 and a 4x4. If there is, I want to know what I can upgrade to improve my situation. Truck seems to handle things great but I don't want to be stressing something beyond its limits.



AC

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by RollOver_Pete

That being said Rusty, If one were to take a 20,000 lb. eaton rear out of a wercked Peterbilt along with a monster driveline, proper springs, brakes and tires... or just swap in a stronger driveline alltogether... would that leagally change the the rated GVWR and GCWR?

No. The manufacturer sets those ratings. Nothing you as an individual can do will change them. There have been some rumors of "NHTSA/DOT certified shops" who can modify trucks and recertify them (i. e. , new door stickers), but I've not seen one. It would be interesting to see the engineering/design analysis background and credentials of the individuals running these establishments.



Rusty

 

[Thomas]

I just looked at the 1999 slick sales brochure. The listed GCWR for your configuration is 20,000 pounds with the following footnote: California GCWR rating with manual transmission is identical to automatic transmission GCWR rating. The automatic transmission equipped 3500's have a 16,000 pound GCWR with 3. 54 gears and an 18,000 pound GCWR with 4. 10 gears.

That particular footnote doesn't show up in the 2000 or 2001 sales slicks. It may have been part of the confusion in my situation.

 

[TowPro]

my 98. 4 2500 2wd, 5 speed, with the 8800 lb axle package (either towing package or camper package gave you this axle, I forget which) has a combo of 20,000 lbs.