Why is my oil black?

[DDahl]

Not it's not! At the moment it serves only as a cheapest fix for DC that costs a lot of fuel for us, hurts Cummins reputation and will have to be replaced when 2007 rolls around.



HPCR can be dangerous (bad injectors holing pistons and/or filling the crankcase with diesel). But just wait until the new camless valve engines start self-destructing at the piston valve interface (bang!).

 

[nickleinonen]

dude, you can be the first to convert yours to have an egr system...



there sure will be no line up to have that done... the OTR/medium duty engines needed to have the egr system to get it past the emissions levels. offroad engines don't have the same levels yet, and the engine in the dodge doesn't fall into the medium duty class [by epa standards] so cummins could use the simpler in cylinder design to get it by the epa ratings...



with an egr system, you oil will get black, and your intake side of the engine will have egr soot/crud build up on them, then you have to have the egr system, cooler, exhaust pressure sensors, mass air flow sensors... and if the system begins to malfunction, you can bet it will real quick [ford 6. 0/vt365 come to mind... ] oh joy...



the externally designed egr systems are mickey mouse. if you really want to believe they are not, go ahead and believe so... with modern technology, that isn't necessary... on many engines now, with variable cam timing, the egr systems have been eleliminated with variable exhaust valve timing... with camless engines, the same will be able to be done...



and if the camless engines scare you, just give up on technology and buy yourself a 12v [and you can get the egr on them in cali versions too, if you want that being it is "such a great system" ]

 

[berg]

your wrong, my 02 stayed clean up to 5000 mi. my 05 turns black right now same oil same filters just differant trucks. best not change to syn as soon as you said as it takes longer than that to break in. my . 02 worth





05 610 4x4

 

[FlyBoy007]

The third injection event and probably modified valve timing is equivalent to in cylinder egr (a poor man's approach). We get the filthy oil without the benefits of a VGT. The result is that DC saved a buck. Cummins is losing its reputation for efficiency, and we are getting ripped off at the pump.



If you compare Cummuns off road and on road emission approaches you will find we got the cheaper off road fix (less efficient -- but cheaper). Check also John Deere. They have two approaches too. They use the approach Cummins used in the 600-610 only for those who want to minimize installed cost and do not mind significant losses of performance and efficiency.



As proof, Cummins advertises that the egr isbe is 2% more efficient than the old 24v engines. However, they do not even bring up the subject of efficiency for the Dodge variants of the isb engine (e. g. 600-610).

3rd Injection event is to provide fuel to the CAT. It needs to be hot to work. I understand the 3rd event is shut down when crusing and the CAT is staying hot. BTW the first event is to add a pre charge to the main injection to make the engine smoother and cut down on the clatter, it keeps the event of combustion slower and smoother.



EGR is something else and if done right not really that bad, Cummins uses it in larger motors.

 

[LightmanE300]

ACF black oil is normal for that truck and is no indication of poor oil quality. It sounds like this might be your first diesel? The 555's and some cleaner burning 2nd gens are not the norm, they are the exception to the norm as far as their clean oil goes. Every other diesel I've owned blackens the oil after a change by the time it's out of the driveway. Don't worry about it and enjoy your truck.



FYI my Mercedes turns the oil black in about 10 miles and after 7500 miles I only had 0. 1% soot in my oil analysis report - just as a frame of reference. Black oil does not mean it's bad!

 

[WNowlan]

The engine companies have not decided on a solution for 07 or 10. Offroad units the first salvo is in 07 and then 12. I would not be concerned with the condition of the oil. We (the lubrication makers) can handle what we are expirencing now. USE A CI-4+ OIL.



The only engine showing significant problems with EGR are the E7 Mack in long haul service.

 

[IC Smoke]

come on guys they are DIESEL motors, the oil will turn black!

dont get 6. 5 / 6. 2 GM oil on your hands for some reason its very hard to get clean!!

We just changed the oil in the boom truck (84 GMC brig w/ cat 3208) and it was nice and black!! same for the 83 dump with the Detroit!



Diesel pickups:

Loud (not so much anymore )

smelly exhaust fumes (I kinda enjoy )

black oil

leak oil (high compression)

and for the light truck series diesel (our pickups) they are front heavy! so watch the mud holes!





. 02

Ian

 

[ACF]

From the horses mouth

I called Cummins the other day and talked to one if the Engineers that has been working there since 74', this is what he said (I will keep it brief and just hit the high points as we talked for over 30 min on the subject).



In the 600/610 due to the latest emissions requirments Cummins decided to go with an in-cylinder solution to the problem. In doing so they lowered the intake charge, the compression ratio and the boost pressure. This was done in order to lower the PEAK in-cylinder temps, the overall are actually a little higher. The effect of this action was that the carbon now is not burned but ends up going into the oil via the crankcase breather valve. This cleans up the hydrocarbons (soot) in the exhuast and puts it into the oil. The key to all of this working is high quality oil such as CI-4. The latest oils are able to suspend up to 5% soot without adverse effects on the engine vs 2. 5% for older oils. Cuummins had a minimal requirment of 3%. One can use lesser oil however the change intervals must be drastically reduced. With good oil 7500/15000 miles poses no concerns. As I said this was just a quick summary but it does hit the high points. So nothing to worry about as long as one used the recommended oils. Not doing so leads to carbon clumping and those clumps acting as small abrasive material inside the engine... hence a permature rebuild.

 

[LightmanE300]

The only engine showing significant problems with EGR are the E7 Mack in long haul service.

I guess you've never heard of the VW TDI? EGR and CCV clog the intakes solid in some cases as early as 50k miles.

 

[LightmanE300]

ACF, how does the carbon get back into the oil from the crankcase breather? It's not recirculating the breather oils/vapors back into the engine whatsoever like some engines - it has a breather tube that drips down onto the ground... (front diff) Just curious.

 

[ACF]

Don't know, just repeating what I was told. If someone has more info please chime in.

 

[WNowlan]

I guess you've never heard of the VW TDI? EGR and CCV clog the intakes solid in some cases as early as 50k miles.

My expirence is with larger diesel engines. So no, i do not have first hand knowledge of a VW or anyother small passenger car diesel. I would suspect that if you used a CI4 oil in these units it would not have this problem. Is this unit a cool EGR system? Or is it an internal EGR? It would make a difference on the perferable choice of additive amount to solve the problem.



Warren

 

[ACF]

You are correct in stating the need for CI4 oil, it is very important to stick to it, however the oil still becomes black. On this engine there is no EGR and the soultion was to deal with the added emission requirments in the cylinder itself.

 

[macdaddy]

Anybody know if the latest Delo 15-40 is CI4 rated??????????????.



Mac

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

The 555's and some cleaner burning 2nd gens are not the norm, they are the exception to the norm as far as their clean oil goes.

I think clean oil on a Cummins is more common than you think. My '01 stayed clean for thousands of miles even when running DD2s and a box and kicking out a fair amount of smoke.



My '96 stays clean for quite awhile too. I have 2300 miles on my current change and it's a bit dark but very clear on the dipstick. Not bad for an old 12-valve with 372k on the clock. When it wasn't running right and smoking though it would get black real quick but still took a couple hundred miles.



Vaughn

 

[WNowlan]

Anybody know if the latest Delo 15-40 is CI4 rated??????????????.



Mac

Yes, Delo 400 15W40 is CI4+. It meets the latest requirements of the engine manufacturers.

 

[jwduke]

Don't forget to ADD oil first. :-laf :-laf

I was hoping you added oil, before you started it! LOL

 

[klenger]

I was hoping you added oil, before you started it! LOL

Would that void my warranty? :-laf

 

[ceaman]

Would that void my warranty? :-laf

I think in reference to past posts, it would void the warranty unless the crankcase was first filled with 8 gallons of diesel fuel! :--)

 

[jwduke]

Would that void my warranty? :-laf

Good question... ... .....