Why Johnnie Can't Think

[CWebster]

This is a great summary of what is (among other things) undermining manufacturing. It really hits home for my business, as we cannot find anyone to hire that can perform basic fabricating work (read a tape measure, think of more than one process ahead of time, etc. ). At 34 years old, I look around and notice that I am one of the youngest in my trade... . and unfortunately don't see any hope of a turnaround. A lot of ink is spent on the woes of outsourcing and global competition, but nothing is said (or done) about the decay of the fundamental needs to maintain this industry. I'm interested to hear everyones comments.



A couple of my favorite comments from the article



"Students are graduating with bachelor’s degrees who can’t write a declarative sentence or change a washer in a faucet. But, they are loaded with self-esteem and diversity appreciation"



"The vast majority of students in the “below average” category who make mediocre, or bad, college students would excel in jobs where craftsmanship and artisanship hold higher value than finding the symbolism of the Spanish doubloon Capt. Ahab nails to the mast of the Pequad in “Moby Dick. ”"





LINK

http://www.manufacturingcenter.com/man/articles/1006/1006editorial.asp





Pete Nofel, Editor

MAN-Modern Applications News

-- email address removed --



"Back in 1955, Rudolph Flesch wrote “Why Johnnie Can’t Read,” a treatise about the crisis back then – and even yet today – of children not being able to read well because of the de-emphasis of phonics.



As anyone who listens to the news knows, things have not improved. Test scores have dropped while high school drop-out rates have soared. As a result, the American workforce has gotten dumber. The result is that the people going into the trades have shrunk. Jobs in shops that start off paying $20 per hour – that’s $41,600 a year – go begging.



The reason for this seeming paradox is because kids are being pushed into attending college whether they would profit from it or not. “Trade school” has become a dirty word. Almost every high-schooler is put on a college-prep track by counselors without thought of preparing them for life and a job. Somehow a college diploma will provide them magically with a way to earn a living.



It’s the Law of Averages

By definition, half of any given population is below average. It’s not a stigma. In a population of geniuses with IQs ranging from 200 down to 180, everyone below 190 is “below average. ”



This isn’t about IQ or any other measurement. It’s about America’s reluctance to appreciate people who work with their hands.



Part of the reason is “requirements creep. ” Jobs that once required an eighth-grade education in the 1930s required a high school diploma in the 1950s. Jobs that required a high school diploma in the 1950s required college degrees in the 1970s. It’s not uncommon today to see people soaking up a master’s degree before looking for work.



What’s happened is colleges have taken over the role that high schools used to fill because high school grads are prepared to do nothing but go to college. That’s not as prestigious as it sounds.



Students are graduating with bachelor’s degrees who can’t write a declarative sentence or change a washer in a faucet. But, they are loaded with self-esteem and diversity appreciation.



Technical high schools have gone the way of the dodo. Back when I went to high school – codger mode is on, by cracky – I attended a public technical school because it was within walking distance. The vast majority of the students were taking courses designed to get them into the labor pool: cabinetmaking, foundry, automotive, secretarial, machine shop, and drafting. A handful of us were in the “academic prep” track, meaning we couldn’t do much of anything but go on to college when we graduated.



A student in the technical track could grab their sheepskin in one hand and a job offer in the other because they were educated to be productive. Many already had part-time jobs in their field. A blue collar was a badge of pride.



Now, after four years of college, it takes six months for most fresh-outs to earn their keep, provided they don’t leave before that.



What’s missing in most of today’s education system is allowing students to fit into education tracks that best suit their needs and abilities. The vast majority of students in the “below average” category who make mediocre, or bad, college students would excel in jobs where craftsmanship and artisanship hold higher value than finding the symbolism of the Spanish doubloon Capt. Ahab nails to the mast of the Pequad in “Moby Dick. ”



Most of the technical high schools around my town and around the country have closed. So, now technical jobs go wanting because teens have no usable skills after high school. Or, the jobs end up being sent to countries where college is for “intellectuals” and people aren’t discouraged from learning a skilled job.



Partially filling the gap are vocational schools, another two to four years of education that could have been accomplished in high school.



Meanwhile colleges are dumbing-down their courses and students are graduating with their bachelor’s “ticket,” and wondering why they are ill prepared to get a job. You mean a degree in film studies won’t get at $50,000 a year job right out of the box?" :--)



Chris

 

[RustyJC]

It's the same in the oil and gas equipment industry. We have jobs going begging because no one wants to pull wrenches on large industrial engines and compressors. Our company is even funding programs at community colleges to train individuals, provide them with free tools and a job upon graduation.



Rusty

 

[daytripper63]

It is so hard to find someone to fill a simple warehouse position and actually have that person show up on time if at all, and do something while they are here whether they do it right or not is another story.

I recently interviewed a young person with a great positive attitude and full of energy, then I hired him when I did his review I asked WHAT HAPPENED you seemed so motivated when we interviewed you but since then your performance has been terrible what do you have to say about this? his reply was "I DRANK A COUPLE OF ROCKSTAR ENERGY DRINKS BEFORE THE INTERVIEW

EDIT. Oh I almost forgot about the last guy I hired and Fired he would make this guy look like employee of the year

 

[bmoeller]

63-



I see that at some of the salebarns I go to. The owner of the barn has to go pick most of them up, since most lost their drivers liscenses from DWI or something else. Or, they are drug users (or were), and not bright. The one gal is shacked up with some loser and comes in with black and blue eyes sometimes. Too bad to, she's a cutie.

 

[Bill Lins]

One of my vendors sponsored a job fair not too long ago. They entertained & fed over 250 "prospects". Out of those, 55 filled out applications. Out of the 55 apps, 11 appeared to actually be employable. Of those 11, 3 failed the drug test and EVERY ONE of the 8 survivors failed the background check!



The vendor later told me that the "unemployed" are actually the "unemployable"!

 

[AMink]

I hire seasonal Park Aide Rangers to work around parks in the area. It is basic clean the park, assist the public etc. The average applicant is an unmotivated 18-23 year old with absolutely no drive to become a better human being. We start them at $10/hour. It's not great, but the work is outside, mostly, and not very hard. Most highschool/college kids don't think $10 is enough for their valuable time. It's tough now that McD's is paying $10 to start. I talk to guys about scheduling an interview and get "yeah", "uh huh", in stoner speak, instead of "yes!" and "certainly I'm interested!". I can usually pick the losers just by their speech. It's unfortunate, but many (not all) of todays youth are of the thought that they are owed a job. They don't understand that you have to WORK! A very sad state of affairs. And you wonder why customer service is going down the tank?

 

[daytripper63]

I hire seasonal Park Aide Rangers to work around parks in the area. It is basic clean the park, assist the public etc. The average applicant is an unmotivated 18-23 year old with absolutely no drive to become a better human being. We start them at $10/hour. It's not great, but the work is outside, mostly, and not very hard. Most highschool/college kids don't think $10 is enough for their valuable time. It's tough now that McD's is paying $10 to start. I talk to guys about scheduling an interview and get "yeah", "uh huh", in stoner speak, instead of "yes!" and "certainly I'm interested!". I can usually pick the losers just by their speech. It's unfortunate, but many (not all) of todays youth are of the thought that they are owed a job. They don't understand that you have to WORK! A very sad state of affairs. And you wonder why customer service is going down the tank?

I will say I recently hired two people for our Sparks NV branch and they are the best people I have hired in 10 years, one of them we hired on a phone call from Tennesee

I still need a HVAC inside sales person in Stockton Ca.

 

[Digger-Bear]

While it true a person should take an education track that suits their ability, it is also true it takes some people a long time to discover what they want to do for a living. It’s also true a majority of people change professions (not employers – professions) a number of times during their lives. I’m working on my fourth. A good education helps people -- ditch digger, surgeon, or politician -- prepare for an ever changing world, and no, I cant defend some of the crazy topics people have to take in order to get a university degree. Most of that lunacy is decided in the state and federal capitols/courts.



I get the feeling the author, who, allegedly is arguing pro-laborer, is at least implying the only people who are suited to work with their hands are the dumber half of our society.



Not in my book!



Honestly, some of the smartest people I know work with their hands. I also take huge exception to the idea that artisans can be only lower 50 percenters as well. It is a large world that requires a lot of different types. An education, if taken seriously, gives you a head start but is no panacea for anything.



Corporate needs are changing. Friends that worked at the local paper mill 30 years ago just had to know enough to keep their hands out of the hydro-pulper and use basic measuring tools. Those same people are now running and at times programming very sophisticated equipment. The bar is raising for the majority of professions, involving hand skills or not.



There are very few people that graduate college illiterate. Those that cant write get taken care of by the rules of natural selection, just like illiterate people who graduate from high school.



By his own logic -- dumb people become tradesmen -- the workforce he is bemoaning as drying up should be booming. I think his argument is weak in that, people who are capable and smart will excel. No matter the job.



Anyone that thinks tradesmen don’t make good enough money have not hired a plumber recently…



I do agree with his statement may people perceive a college diploma will provide them magically with a way to earn a living. There are no guarantees in life.



Let me suggest one more thing. This may really **** off your author. America is not seen as the land of laborers. We have some great ones to be sure but, we have always been the country of ideas.



Ideas are our major export. It’s why so many of our graduate programs are packed with foreigners. They are not here to learn how to change a plumbing washer but to get the latest and highest level research. The USA was predicated on that idea. Our own Thomas Jefferson is quoted as saying “I am a soldier, so my son can be a farmer, and his son can be a poet”. Looks like his long term goal was to have us all get out of the labor pool.



>>You mean a degree in film studies won’t get at $50,000 a year job right out of the box?



Nope, it may, if your are interesting, get you a $200,000. 00 job in film production. I’ve seen it happen to more than one of my students. Take that doubloon and nail it to your mast!

 

[nickleinonen]

i am average... mechanically pretty smart, not so book smart. .

 

[GFritsch]

I am a construction superintendent. I worked my way up from the bottom as an apprentice and now make a six figure income. It seems that even though the money is good very few even marginally educated people around here are getting into the union and joining the trades. (please lets not get into the hole union debate). Point being despite the opportunity to make a good living and do honest work there are few "smart" people getting into the trades. We have plenty of people who can push a broom, but trying to find someone nowadays to replace the foreman or lead carpenter is getting tough. The experienced guys are retiring with few replacements.



There was a time in this country where there was a sense of pride in the blue collar ranks. Now it seems if you can't do it with a computer mouse it just doesn't appeal to todays youth. This country seems to have become just plain lazy. Maybe it's just a California thing.



Greg

 

[bmoeller]

Most highschool/college kids don't think $10 is enough for their valuable time.



It's unfortunate, but many (not all) of todays youth are of the thought that they are owed a job. They don't understand that you have to WORK!



A very sad state of affairs. And you wonder why customer service is going down the tank?

My boss' son seems to be one of them. He can work hard when he wants to, but usually doesn't. Spoiled kid. His sisters boyfriend is completely different. He has a great work ethic. Will do anything that is asked of him. If he's not quite sure how to do something, just give him some pointers, and he's off. Pretty qiock study. Very impressed. I asked him yesterday of what he thought of the farming thing, since he is city kid. Said he really likes it, but surprised on how dirty one can get in a day working. :-laf All to true. :-laf

 

[mgoncalves]

It's pretty simple really, if you offer enough pay, you will get good laborers.



I have some white collar friends that would love to be doing something mechanical instead of pushing paper, but why would they for a fraction of the pay?



If the money's there, the right people will show up.

 

[CWebster]

Digger-bear makes some interesting points.



I do not believe the author was implying that "the only people who are suited to work with their hands are the dumber half of our society", rather that educational forces are pouring money, time, and experience into curriculums that are failing those students in their end result... . resulting in a "dumbing down" and misdirection of our labor pool. At the same time, that money, time, and experience is being taken away from the programs that are deemed "blue collar" (for lack of a better cliche) and are leaving a vast pool of quality labor to try and assimilate into other programs.



Also, I can agree that "we have always been the country of ideas", but without the ability, intelligence, and experience to act on those ideas you are not going to accomplish anything. You cannot have one without the other.



"Nope, it may, if your are interesting, get you a $200,000. 00 job in film production. I’ve seen it happen to more than one of my students. Take that doubloon and nail it to your mast!"



Really, how many $200,000 jobs in film production are available? And right after graduating?!!? And that dubloon was produced by someone working with his hands, and consequently nailed to the mast by, yep, another hands on guy... ...

 

[CWebster]

It's pretty simple really, if you offer enough pay, you will get good laborers.



I have some white collar friends that would love to be doing something mechanical instead of pushing paper, but why would they for a fraction of the pay?



If the money's there, the right people will show up.

I think that is one of the points of the article... . the money IS there, and it just sits waiting for a capable person to come along and take it. I am in that situation now. We pay above the local market wages, have benefits, and have a lot of work to do and a lot more work that we can aquire... ... but cannot find anyone to fill the positions.



Your white collar freinds are a good example of the situation. Pushing paper should not be more lucrative than doing something mechanical. Our society has skewed that way, unfortunately, all by itself in the world community. And what I mean by that is that in the European Union, "trades" are a respected endeavor and are given the same benefits, resources, and wages as other prestigious careers... maybe not more or less, but equal to. Ultimately supply and demand should realign the industry, but some of us cannot wait for when that happens.

 

[GFritsch]

It's pretty simple really, if you offer enough pay, you will get good laborers.



I have some white collar friends that would love to be doing something mechanical instead of pushing paper, but why would they for a fraction of the pay?



If the money's there, the right people will show up.

I agree, however a carpenter in my area is paid over 70k a year. I believe this to be more than most college grads are making. I honestly don't know if it would matter how much the pay is. Kids these days just aren't interested in jobs that require manual labor.

 

[donnier]

When I started in the work force, I started installing tires at a local May Company.

I went from there to a job as a civil worker for the local water dept.

Recently, I retired from there and have seen "younger" employees get hired into positions of lead people and then have to be "trained " for the position.

One of the reasons I retired was I was passed over for someone younger and then was informed I had to train him.

IMHO, there isnt the pride and caring now as there was when I started.

I have a nephew that I have tried to get onto the civil work force.

His question is always the same"Whats in it for me?"

They all seem to want the benefits given to them without working hard for them.

What worries me the most is these are our future leaders.





The aforementioned post is just one old mans opinion.

 

[Digger-Bear]

That coin was produced by slave labor, nailed to the mast by a captain - an educated privileged person who got his commission through political connections – and designed by an artist, classically trained in the academy who was taught European and Roman cultural history well enough to render those specific images. Not to mention Herman Melville, the educated novelist who wrote that epic.



The author says “The vast majority of students in the “below average” category who make mediocre, or bad, college students would excel in jobs where craftsmanship and artisanship…” Sounds like he stuck craftsman in the dumber half to me. Really, his article was a vapid pastiche that glazed over any substantive issues. He would have much better finding one idea and drilling down on it rather than casting shadows.



I feel very strongly every person should be given the opportunity of achieving their dreams. It’s the American way. Having an advisor decide that someone is too stupid for college and forcing them into a vo-ed track is just short of criminal. If they can’t make it in a program, it should be through their own actions, not because someone picks and chooses their life. In my case, I have a learning disability, unfortunately a hundred years ago when I was in public school there was no way of identifying that problem. I was classified as un-teachable and was beaten by my teachers. They decided to house me with the “dumb class”. Without boring this group with details suffice it to say I made it through on my own and have done fairly well. In another country or time I would be pushing a broom - here those teachers report to me.



I think mgoncalves hit it on the head when he says “you offer enough pay, you will get good laborers” -- let the free market do its work. Same way with educational tracks. Kids weigh an exciting and well paying job against a life of low pay working with their hands… pretty much a no-brainer decision which direction they will take.



I still don’t understand how a higher education fails students. It may come from the notion that an education guarantees you a job. It never has. An education means you have an education, that’s all. Hopefully you walk away with a deeper understanding of the world around you. It is not an indication of how smart you are or how well you can work with your hands. Personally, I am in awe of most of the people on this site that can tear apart their trucks and put them back together practically blindfolded. I'm trying to learn but I simply don’t have much ability in that area.



In the Renaissance a person went to the university "to be transformed". They wanted an education for educations sake. What does that have to do with those $200,000 jobs? It is capsulized in a discussion with one of my former students (principle at DreamWorks making a hell of a lot more than $200,000) had with George Lucas. Lucas was bemoaning the fact he could not find anyone to hire coming out of school for his business. My former student countered with the fact that there was a film student and animator on every street corner in LA. How could he not find anyone to hire? Lucas said he could train anyone to run the software but he could not find anyone “interesting” with ideas. He was looking for that Renaissance person. BTW the next person they hired was a Geology major. He took the software classes and is still there.



My students get 97% placement – not all starting at 200,000 but doing very well.



Again, some of the smartest people I know are your “blue collar” workers. Good ones will do well, bad ones will not. Same as in every field. The market will find its own level. You are right in saying it takes all kinds, from the researcher to the broom pusher – it’s a big world and we can all prosper together.

 

[CWebster]

Good points Digger-Bear, I hope to respond without seeming argumentative... . I am just trying to gain insight into the things that are affecting me professionally.



Your responses may be accurate in the context of this discussion, but are not accurate when it comes to application in the real world. I am a firm believer in "Higher Education" but Higher Education means Business, liberal arts, etc. degrees these days... . Machinist, Welding, Heavy Equipment degrees should have the same significance (and financial/social backing) as the others. Pick a curriculum from a random amount of colleges in the United States and segregate into "Blue Collar" and "White Collar" courses and you will see the real world averages of what is available to students. Ultimately, the needs of the Industries are not being met, if no issues are established then market forces will never take over ... . they will be unaware of a need to adjust. Have a great weekend... . I've got to get in the shop and attack a pile of work I can't hire anybody to do :-laf



Chris

That coin was produced by slave labor, nailed to the mast by a captain - an educated privileged person who got his commission through political connections – and designed by an artist, classically trained in the academy who was taught European and Roman cultural history well enough to render those specific images. Not to mention Herman Melville, the educated novelist who wrote that epic.



The author says “The vast majority of students in the “below average” category who make mediocre, or bad, college students would excel in jobs where craftsmanship and artisanship…” Sounds like he stuck craftsman in the dumber half to me. Really, his article was a vapid pastiche that glazed ovesubstantive issues. r any He would have much better finding one idea and drilling down on it rather than casting shadows.



I feel very strongly every person should be given the opportunity of achieving their dreams. It’s the American way. Having an advisor decide that someone is too stupid for college and forcing them into a vo-ed track is just short of criminal. If they can’t make it in a program, it should be through their own actions, not because someone picks and chooses their life. In my case, I have a learning disability, unfortunately a hundred years ago when I was in public school there was no way of identifying that problem. I was classified as un-teachable and was beaten by my teachers. They decided to house me with the “dumb class”. Without boring this group with details suffice it to say I made it through on my own and have done fairly well. In another country or time I would be pushing a broom - here those teachers report to me.



I think mgoncalves hit it on the head when he says “you offer enough pay, you will get good laborers” -- let the free market do its work. Same way with educational tracks. Kids weigh an exciting and well paying job against a life of low pay working with their hands… pretty much a no-brainer decision which direction they will take.



I still don’t understand how a higher education fails students. It may come from the notion that an education guarantees you a job. It never has. An education means you have an education, that’s all. Hopefully you walk away with a deeper understanding of the world around you. It is not an indication of how smart you are or how well you can work with your hands. Personally, I am in awe of most of the people on this site that can tear apart their trucks and put them back together practically blindfolded. I'm trying to learn but I simply don’t have much ability in that area.



In the Renaissance a person went to the university "to be transformed". They wanted an education for educations sake. What does that have to do with those $200,000 jobs? It is capsulized in a discussion with one of my former students (principle at DreamWorks making a hell of a lot more than $200,000) had with George Lucas. Lucas was bemoaning the fact he could not find anyone to hire coming out of school for his business. My former student countered with the fact that there was a film student and animator on every street corner in LA. How could he not find anyone to hire? Lucas said he could train anyone to run the software but he could not find anyone “interesting” with ideas. He was looking for that Renaissance person. BTW the next person they hired was a Geology major. He took the software classes and is still there.



My students get 97% placement – not all starting at 200,000 but doing very well.



Again, some of the smartest people I know are your “blue collar” workers. Good ones will do well, bad ones will not. Same as in every field. The market will find its own level. You are right in saying it takes all kinds, from the researcher to the broom pusher – it’s a big world and we can all prosper together.

 

[SSabick]

Does this High pay job start with an apprenticeship? There are many people looking for great jobs out there. Have you tried to get it out in front of the right crowd? Have you gone to the local Tech school, and posted on the job boards? What about the local unemployment office. Are there people willing to learn the skill, or trade inside the shop? Wish it were closer to me. I would love to get out of the Real Estate world, and into something that would teach me a trade. Most of the trade jobs locally want you to already have at least 2 years on the job experience... Where are people supposed to get that experience if no one is willing to give you a chance?

 

[rbattelle]

I thought that article was all right, but rather shallow. Here's another one that's a lot longer and more in-depth.



As a young "white-collar" worker (who's really a wanna-be blue collar worker at heart), I can tell you that among the "educated" the rising tide of "educated idiots" is becoming a problem. These are often really nice people who simply never bothered to learn much despite 4 years (or more) of college.



It's disturbing when you ask a college graduate something he should've learned on day 1 and he looks at you like you've got lobsters coming out of your ears. And then I'm always the "jerk" because I don't cut them any slack for not knowing basic stuff. I'm 28 years old and I've become the office curmudgeon.



Ryan