Why Johnnie Can't Think

[PToombs]

I think it's mostly the parents fault. When I was young I had an allowance, but I had to do chores, do dishes, vacuum, laundry, etc. When I got older and needed more money for a car, I got a job. My parents were both workers, my mother had an accounting job. My father was foreman in the warehouse of a lumber wholesaler, and at night he unloaded lumber boxcars. I wasn't afraid to work for what I wanted, I had 2 jobs, worked days 7 days a week when I was about 24. My brother was 20 and he had 2 jobs in the same time period.

Now most kids get cars given to them at 16 or 17, an allowance for gas, or whatever, no work involved. A lot of kids have no respect, are mouthy, and don't do any thing. Why should they? Their parents give them most everything for nothing! It's no wonder they don't want to get their hands dirty and work for lower pay. What's in it for them? The satisfaction of a job well done? Yeah right! Show them the money!

Make the kids work, teach them some respect, and things will start to change.

 

[dpuckett]

Pete, I actually got fired from a job back in June for getting onto lazy, unthinking people for doing stupid stuff in the shop. A guy put a piece of sheet steel on the side of a BBQ pit and left it there, no clamps or rivets. I jumped his case for it and got fired. I am willing to work, relocate if needed, and try to learn a trade. I'd like to go to horseshoeing school, but havent come up with the money for it yet. Machine shops arent real appealling to me, but I like working with my hands and prefer a good day's work for a good day's pay. One thing I have noticed is many of my contemporaries are lazy and want $50K a year for standing around, or goofing off and playing pranks just for kicks.



I have noticed the same thing SSabick noticed- everyone wants experienced workers, and wont pay inexperienced workers diddly. Not that I expect to get paid the same as a foreman to start, but I am not going to kill myself in 100deg heat for $8 an hour. So I guess it boils down to people not wanting to work. If I ever have any kids, they wont get given anything past the age of about 6- they will work for what they get- they will get jobs when they turn 16, etc, etc. I think it is a fialure on the part of the parents when they raise lazy kids. I know my mom failed in that regard.



Daniel

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Hey guys, one of the young-uns here.



I seem to be an exception to the rule, not bragging or anything, that's just what I'm told all the time. I'm 21, soon 22 and I've already managed to earn my Associates degree in Heavy Equipment, earned my ASE Master Certification in Med/Hvy Duty Diesel; and now I'm working for a large trucking company getting greasy every day. Usually I end up the dirtiest I love working with my hands and fixing stuff.



It is pretty sad, every place I've applied for jobs, or worked; I hardly ever see/work with someone my own age. Everyone is always 10+ years older than I am, and the majority are in their 40's(no offense meant here guys) and I do not have a problem with that, I get along with everybody. Still, noone seems to really want to work with thier hand or get dirty anymore. They want to work 9 to 5 and make a zillion bucks. Now I make decent money, but not alot, and I end up working 50-60 hours a week sometimes more; and on top of that the time I spend at home working on trucks at night or the weekends. If I tell someone my own age I worked 60 hrs this week they usually look at me like They'd die.



Anyway guys, sorry for the long post, just wanted to let ya'll know we aint all lazy.



Steven

 

[Digger-Bear]

Chris,



I hope I wasn’t coming off as argumentative either!



I work in higher education and constantly do peer reviews so I am pretty aware of my competition. Even though a lot of students in our program can weld, cast, etc. it is because that craft is built into a larger class. I know of no university that offers classes in "Blue Collar" trades.



The status of machinists and welders is a social issue that can’t be addressed at an academic level. If a machinist is portrayed as the guy with the trophy wife driving a Ferrari making six figures and spending his weekend in the Hampton’s, the job will become popular overnight.



That happened with Forensic science. No one wanted to poke around dead bodies and study bugs until CSI broke onto our airways with sexy actors, cool sunglasses, and lots of adventure. At our university, it is now a packed program. Get a guy on the air that is like Mcguiver who works with his hands building cool things – trade schools will be overflowing. One area that appearing to be growing is auto fabrication – seems a lot of kids want to “Pimp their Rides” after seeing folks making things with their hands. Half of it is about image. This is one of the areas where industry has dropped the ball -- developing a pool of labor. On this we agree.



Business needs to take care of business. If there is a shortage of good workers, business needs to invest in this type of person. Higher pay, better working conditions, new tech ed centers and a good PR man. All of which are very expensive and show up as a short term deficit on a CEO’s ledger. I don’t think they are unaware, they just are eyeing the short term bottom line trying to justify their own inflated paychecks. Industry will invest in tech research parks – sexy projects with fast high potential returns. They should also invest in workers rather than seeing labor as something that can be outsourced to a third world country.



The joke is on us – we are outsourcing our labor and now its coming full circle. Foreign companies are building factories in the USA and hiring our labor force (outsourcing for them) while doing their high dollar research on their home turf. Their researchers were taught here for free in the good old US of A. Ideas, our greatest export. Now that’s a real-world problem!

 

[TowPro]

I can tell you that among the "educated" the rising tide of "educated idiots" is becoming a problem. These are often really nice people who simply never bothered to learn much despite 4 years (or more) of college.



Ryan

We see a lot of them in the computer consulting field. It was really bad in the late 90's during the dot com era.



Someone called them IROC's, Idiot's right out of collage!

 

[ropinfool2]

It's the same in the oil and gas equipment industry. We have jobs going begging because no one wants to pull wrenches on large industrial engines and compressors. Our company is even funding programs at community colleges to train individuals, provide them with free tools and a job upon graduation.



Rusty

I think part of the problem is finding the jobs. I just spent the last two years trying to get out of California, had several interviews but wasn't #1 on the list. I just happen to have attended a large Engine manufacturer's school and am considered "Certified" but have not yet been considered for the oil & gas industry partly due to the fact that I have not been able to find many openings. I also believe that never having worked in that industry is also a huge factor (I currently work in the Power Generation Industry and received my initial training from the US Navy). I've been doing this type of work (industrial mechanics) for almost 19 years, so I would not consider myself to be an apprentice. My salary is in the $60k range, my wife also works full time and we have the bills to match so if I see a job opening that only advertises $25/hr it just won't cut it. I can't afford to take a lower paying job, pay moving expenses (most companies are only paying this for upper level management) losing my wife's income and be expected to make it. I'm not picking on you Rusty, you've actually helped me out in the past when I "thought" I had a job outside Houston, your post just kind of hit home. Anyway i'm done now, thanks. JR

 

[RustyJC]

If you'll PM me and let me know where you're interested in living, I can give you some contacts.



Edit: Please check your PMs.



Rusty

 

[fest3er]

... I know of no university that offers classes in "Blue Collar" trades. ...

http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/Catalogs/Ugrad/Current/mecourses.html#me1800



So there!



Computer Science was my major there, and I took this course to learn about gas and arc welding, casting, machining and other aspects of materials processing.



Other thoughts (in no particular order):



As to others' comments about the 'bottom half' being better in trades: if 'the bottom half' refers to folks who are poor academic students who have to learn at their own pace or learn with their hands, then this might well be true. There are a lot of people who cannot learn in a classroom, who have to learn with their hands. These people will often have lower school grades even though they are highly intelligent; similarly, there are a lot of people getting college degrees who are rather ... dim. School grades indicate how well a person learns in a classroom. Product quality indicates how well a person learns on-the-job. There are times I wonder if I'd've been better off going to a vo-tech high school rather than the college-prep school I attended.



And yes, 20-25 years ago I noticed the trend of pushing all elementary students to go to college prep high schools. It's been happening for quite a long time now. I've often wondered why so many business degrees are granted; the real result of those degrees is that most problems end up looking like budget screwups.



There are thinkers, and there are doers. One works with his mind, and t'other works with his hands.



The most successful white-collar folks are those who work best with their minds, and can make adequate use of their hands. The most successful blue-collar workers are those who work best with their hands, and can make adequate use of their minds. The most successful people never stop learning.



The most creative people are right-brained (left-handed). The most detail-oriented people are left-brained (right-handed). The brightest people are those who easily use both sides of their brains; they also tend to be ambidextrous.



So if you find someone who is ambidextrous, a thinker, and a doer, hire him and stand back. And be prepared to pay him well.



One of the highest-paying careers I know of is that of the tool and die maker.

 

[GFritsch]

When I attended high school there was auto shop, wood shop and metal shop. Of course I attended all. These were the only classes I never skipped.



Same school now has none of these classes offered. I think that lack of exposure to these hands on training experiences is the biggest reason why kids aren't getting into the trades. Our schools simply are not training are kids to be blue-collar workers anymore. The few that are getting in for the most part seem to be as a last resort, not out of genuine interest.



Not everyone can be the boss as many graduates are learning after entering the work force and are stuck in some crummy cubicle processing paperwork and staring into a computer all day when they could be actually building something real with their hands and feeling a real sense of accomplishment.