Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Why no rebuild kit for clutch hydraulics?

[NIsaacs]

Just replaced my '01 clutch master cylinder again, second time in 192,000 miles. The first time I used the Dodge complete system, this time I just replaced the master from NAPA. It is metal v/s plastic, I am not sure if that matters, the plastic housing on the old one seems fine.



I dis-assembled the old master cylinder just for the heck of it and can't see anything wrong. It has to be the valve that closes off the fluid to the reservoir and forces the fluid to the slave cylinder but I can't see why it failed.



I would think a ten dollar kit would be in order



For reference, my '91 with 312,000 miles is still original.



Nick

 

[RSchwarzli]

I was always told it had to do with not being able to bleed the air out so it was sold complete. Was also told to rever just change the slave.

Robert

 

[NIsaacs]

Yes, I have heard the same thing but most auto parts stores sell them both ways, complete or separate. The master was $75 from NAPA and the Dodge complete was $200 so I thought I would try just the master this time. There is nothing to the slave, just a spring and piston so I have a spare if I need it.



Nick

 

[GCroyle]

Nick,



This might help ‪perfectionclutch's Channel‬‏ - YouTube (Bleeding systems w/o bleedscrews) I have read the FSM about do not service as components, I think that was Dodge and it's OE supplier saying we don't want you messing around, sell the complete system and move on, my opinion.



I will take a dry line, dry master, dry slave assemble them, fill w/DOT 3, burp, test, install and drive away with confidence. Amazing how a small air bubble can mess up one of these systems and the stock G56 has the most "joints" in the line of all Dodge diesels that I have worked with.



I don't have an answer about the service kit availabity.



We take a lot of calls on the Tech Line at work and IMHO a lot of the problems come from folks putting their brake bleeding process hat on when they should hang that one up and think about outsmarting the bubble. You have different service options and requirements with clutch hydraulics.



Gary



I just finished our 2nd how to burp (bleed) the famous Ford Ranger video too.

 

[NIsaacs]

Garry, thanks for the video link, you make it look easy! It's a good thing I wasn't getting paid when I did mine, it took hours to bleed. I wonder why when it is bolted in the truck it is so hard to bleed. I did what you did but it took forever. And yes, ya gotta get away from the brake hydraulics mentality, they are not the same!!



Nick

 

[GCroyle]

Nick,



One thing I will assure you and anyone else up front. The video is not doctored or anything. What we did is what you saw. We are trying to use techniques that a DIY'er can do w/o $$ must have tools. But I do have one explanation that accounts for some difficulty and is often overlooked.



Master cylinder angle during burping.



These M/C's use a check valve to direct fluid down in to the line and S/C or allow it to go up into reservoir. This is the critical part, the fluid comes in from the reservoir at the centerline of the bore, not from the top of the bore as it might look. The hole is small. Everything going into or OUT of the M/C bore does so at the centerline. So, anything ABOVE center of bore (read air bubble) stays there, fluid flows under it. Solution tip M/C reservoir up, pushrod down 30-45 degrees or so, burp system, flushes air out the top. One exception for some of our blue oval crowd, many of your M/C's are piston port and need to be horizontal. Check valve systems have the reservoir stacked on top of the discharge port like this one. Piston port designs have the reservoir at one end and the discharge port at the opposite end. I have a picture of the master cylinder that I made a training model out of by milling part of the body away to show the fluid path from reservoir into bore, then inserted paperclips to show flowpath. In this pic I also have a check valve assy and seat, notice the light gage spring behind the check valve. If you push inwards on the paperclip that touches the check valve, it moves slightly. If you are diagnosing one of these systems for no release, look at the fluid in the reservoir during a release stroke, if you see a big backwash of fluid, I don't think your check valve is closing, something has damaged it or is blocking it. Might see a quick flutter as it closes off.

 

[HBarlow]

That's great information, Gary. Very professional!

I don't own a manual transmission any longer and probably never will but would like to know where your shop is located in SC in case I want to make a referral sometime.

Edit: Never mind, I answered my own question. Looked at your excellent website. You're east of Columbia on I-20. I passed right by you in early June on a motorcycle trip in that area.

Once upon a time long ago when I was 18-21 years of age I was stationed at the old Navy base in Charleston and visited a girlfriend in Belton near Anderson and Greenville every weekend.

 

[GCroyle]

Harvey,



Thanks for the kind comments. Lots of folks don't know where we are until I tell them we are about 15 minutes south of the Lady in Black, The Track Too Tough to Tame the famous Darlington Raceway. We see a LOT of bikes for the 2 notable bike festivals held in Myrtle Beach. Weekend commutes between the Low Country and the Upstate, wow, thats a lot of pine trees to drive by, but I bet it was worth the trip. I sold my 1987 GL1200 shortly after we got here in '02, sorta lost interest, too much other stuff going on. Former MSF RSS instructor back in Ohio.



Harvey, we do not operate an installation facility. All of our sales are to distributors and the installation lab is for R&D and training only. If you have looked at any of our videos all of the installations are done no charge to the vehicle owner.



I have just tried to offer when possible to TDR viewers a bit of clutch information over the years and hydraulic release systems have a reputation as a PITA but I prefer them over any other release system.



Gary