Why so much talk about the 6.0 PSD and not much if any about the Duramax?

[swordfish]

I read a lot of threads about the 6. 0 PSD, and enjoy it, but not too much about the Duramax. My knowledge about the two is limited, maybe thats the answer, I don't know. Can someone out there clear this up for me.

Thanks

 

[jarsong]

My opinion is the Duramax has proven itself as a worthy competitor... . We all raised an eyebrow when we heard it had Alum. heads, so far it's a non issue. Still isn't a Cummins though.

jarsong

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

IMHO the stock Chevy/Duramax combination is so far below the Dodge/Cummins as to be non-competitive. Read my article by clicking on the headline announcing the new 325/600. The Chubby seems strong when driven solo, but just doesn't make it when trying to do what it is intended for--heavy load or trailer towing. They have had failures of the injector tubes, connecting rods (just ask ATS, the transmission guys in Denver), etc. They can be hopped up, and the automatic can be beefed, but the platform is inferior. Just my opinion.

 

[fox]

All the service people at bow tie know it is their last chance so they keep quiet about problems.

Ayear ago I was at a chevy dealer getting parts for one of my old chevies and asked the parts man "do you go thru many head gaskets on the Duramax" , quickly he nope, none. As I was walking out the door a tech walked in and said " get me 2 more of the duramax head gaskets", I stopped turned around, looked at the guy and laughed, he hung his head and I left!!! LAUGHING.



Here, we ask each other to help when problems show up. We are open about it.



A short stroke motor can't put . period.

 

[jarsong]

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly

IMHO the stock Chevy/Duramax combination is so far below the Dodge/Cummins as to be non-competitive. Read my article by clicking on the headline announcing the new 325/600. The Chubby seems strong when driven solo, but just doesn't make it when trying to do what it is intended for--heavy load or trailer towing. They have had failures of the injector tubes, connecting rods (just ask ATS, the transmission guys in Denver), etc. They can be hopped up, and the automatic can be beefed, but the platform is inferior. Just my opinion.

I know Joe, but your comparing the latest Ram 325/600. Go back a few years like to my model 01. My truck stock for stock isn't much of a challenge for a DMAX.

jarsong

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I am using the latest from F and C also. I think the F is the same engine as for 2004. 5. I agree the Ram's brakes and rear doors in 2001 weren't near as good as the 2004 Ram, but this is 2004 now and the competition has to address the latest Dodge is offering. Even if miraculously F or C does something good to their engines, while meeting 2004 EPA and CARB regs, the truck platforms don't measure up and are unlikely to be upgraded substantially this month. I don't see the point to saying the 2004. 5 F or C might be better than a 3 year old Dodge Ram.

 

[Rob Thomas]

IMO, even comparing stock trucks isn't very accurate. Each mfg. co. up's the ante yearly, so what's the point? The new 600 will be king this year, then next year it will be someone else, by the hp ratings in the brochure anyway. "IF", all mfg. companies had equal hp ratings who do you think would be on top (for towing power, not overall sales mind you)? Longevity, that's not even a question, especially when you spent extra for the diesel option, I imagine you plan on keeping it for a while. IMO, thats the name of the game, if I can get up the hill . 5 seconds faster, that's great too.





Rob

 

[jarsong]

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly

I am using the latest from F and C also. I think the F is the same engine as for 2004. 5. I agree the Ram's brakes and rear doors in 2001 weren't near as good as the 2004 Ram, but this is 2004 now and the competition has to address the latest Dodge is offering. Even if miraculously F or C does something good to their engines, while meeting 2004 EPA and CARB regs, the truck platforms don't measure up and are unlikely to be upgraded substantially this month. I don't see the point to saying the 2004. 5 F or C might be better than a 3 year old Dodge Ram.

I guess te good news is we know the RAM isn't even close to being at it's end of power limits and being indestructable as well. The 04. 5 has raised the bar for sure. At 325HP for a Cummins, it's still knapping... 300+ for the others they may be at their end of reliable HP meaning they half to try crazy stuff that is not proven to keep up. The latest 6. 0L is just the start. We'll see what GM tries?? As long as we can keep the rest of our truck together we should be able to steel some market share. I think we need more production facilities though.

jarsong

 

[jarsong]

Originally posted by Rob Thomas

IMO, even comparing stock trucks isn't very accurate. Each mfg. co. up's the ante yearly, so what's the point? The new 600 will be king this year, then next year it will be someone else, by the hp ratings in the brochure anyway. "IF", all mfg. companies had equal hp ratings who do you think would be on top (for towing power, not overall sales mind you)? Longevity, that's not even a question, especially when you spent extra for the diesel option, I imagine you plan on keeping it for a while. IMO, thats the name of the game, if I can get up the hill . 5 seconds faster, that's great too.





Rob

True but if you take a 01 VS 01 or 02 vs 02 for that matter the Duramax stomps it... Kills me to say it, but it's true. An HO like mine is 245HP, DMAX 300? I also have to give GM credit for the nationwide tour they did pulling the 10K trailer before the release. They were not going to let the 6. 2L/6. 5L thing happen again. So they were able to show the public that this thing can pull it's head off. It was actually good for us as well. It was quiet! Lookie what we got in 03, more power and QUIET! I'm really excited about this 04. 5 release! Now I,m going to HAVE to get that SB clutch and Injectors to keep up.....

jarsong

 

[DHayden]

Jarsong the "numbers" might kill it in the hp dept. but torque is close. The others may beat you if your racing stop light to stop light, but they will be in the rear view mirror pulling a trailer up the hill.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

exactly... hook 20k# behind each one, and watch the Dodge trounce the competition...



heck, make it really interesting... leave that 20k lbs behind them and see which one makes it to 400k miles first!



Forrest

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

We are near to max torque rating for this engine me thinks. 660 is factory cummins right? Do how much room do we really have. Id take a 250hp 660 any day.



There was a test in a horsey mag. The Ford took the prize but there was a suprise. They ran a SO auto gainst the ford and the DMAX. The cummins came in dead last with a load. The thing that blew their minds is how does a 235hp engine almost overcome a 300 hp dmax on flat ground. Take it to the hills and a SO will walk a Dmax. Short stroke diesels are fast but not big on towing heavy.



I followed a few through our mountains this summer. They lugged down quick. There are a lot of DMAXers up here. Almost more than cummins. Makes me scratch my head. For the price and a truck that is strictly for a tow rig. The 6 speed cummins seems like a no brainer.



Look at the ridiculously overloaded trucks running down the road. A good portion of them are cummins. The engine is a workhorse. And now that dodge gave us some stopping power it makes it easy to go over the top.

 

[DPelletier]

Comments;



- 1) I don't think the ETH is at the max. design limit for power yet, there is room for more if need be. Do you think that GM would have the DM Jan. release motor at 310/590 if they could have pushed it to 326/601? They had the DC numbers. I suspect the Duramax and the ZF are already pushing the envelope. And as Joe has stated, they are not keeping up now. The Ford is the only other engine challenging us in the power dept. and we all know the host of problems they have been having.



- 2) The HP wars are nice, but the best engine isn't necessarily the one that makes the most power. Our engines are twice as strong, twice as reliable and way simpler (no cooled egr, etc. etc. ) I find it quite amusing that GM has had to make so many changes since 1990 and so has Ford, but the 5. 9 is still going strong. There have been many changes to the Cummins in this time (for the most part emissions driven), but the basic engine and internals remain the same. Proven and competitive. I chuckled to myself every time I read a TDR post expressing concern with the Jan '04 release and comparing it to Fords disaster. The HP wars are just one-upmanship and although I'm glad DC is winning at the moment, I sure wouldn't base my purchasing decision on who's got the 10hp advantage at this point in time.

In fact, I had a friend ask my opinion on what diesel truck to buy, and I surprised even myself by telling him the honest truth; I'd rather have a five year old Dodge Cummins than a brand new F or C.



My 2. 5 cents



Dave



Oh, to actually answer the question in the thread, I think you haven't heard much about problems with the DMAX, because GM did a much better job than Ford did with R&D before releasing thier package. The 6. 6 is still grossly inferior to the Cummins, but will probably give decent service for 100,000 miles or so as long as you don't bomb it too much.

 

[Joe G.]

Anybody know what the torque rating is for one of the 370 HP 12 valves? RV or marine I think. Not sure.

 

[WadePatton]

let the roadway speak

Around here you'll see about 5:4:1 ratio F/D/C pulling RV's and lawnmowers and horse trailers.



Usually the Duraminnies are driven by Grandpa with the RV or Daisy with the horses. You'll see WAY more Chevy gassers than diesels.



(But I do know of one hot Dmax that pulls sleds. He still has it, but has bought a Dodge and joined up here. TNfarmer-Robert. )



Now look at the hot-shot and overloaded rigs and you'll find about 7:3 ratio Dodges to Fords. I've NEVER seen an Isuzu diesel in that application.

 

[rbattelle]

Originally posted by Big_Daddy_T

We are near to max torque rating for this engine me thinks. 660 is factory cummins right? Do how much room do we really have. Id take a 250hp 660 any day.

I agree 100%. If someone offered a fueling box that gave me 250/660 I'd buy it in a heartbeat!!!Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[jarsong]

Originally posted by DPelletier

Comments;



- 1) I don't think the ETH is at the max. design limit for power yet, there is room for more if need be. Do you think that GM would have the DM Jan. release motor at 310/590 if they could have pushed it to 326/601? They had the DC numbers. I suspect the Duramax and the ZF are already pushing the envelope. And as Joe has stated, they are not keeping up now. The Ford is the only other engine challenging us in the power dept. and we all know the host of problems they have been having.



- 2) The HP wars are nice, but the best engine isn't necessarily the one that makes the most power. Our engines are twice as strong, twice as reliable and way simpler (no cooled egr, etc. etc. ) I find it quite amusing that GM has had to make so many changes since 1990 and so has Ford, but the 5. 9 is still going strong. There have been many changes to the Cummins in this time (for the most part emissions driven), but the basic engine and internals remain the same. Proven and competitive. I chuckled to myself every time I read a TDR post expressing concern with the Jan '04 release and comparing it to Fords disaster. The HP wars are just one-upmanship and although I'm glad DC is winning at the moment, I sure wouldn't base my purchasing decision on who's got the 10hp advantage at this point in time.

In fact, I had a friend ask my opinion on what diesel truck to buy, and I surprised even myself by telling him the honest truth; I'd rather have a five year old Dodge Cummins than a brand new F or C.



My 2. 5 cents



Dave



Oh, to actually answer the question in the thread, I think you haven't heard much about problems with the DMAX, because GM did a much better job than Ford did with R&D before releasing thier package. The 6. 6 is still grossly inferior to the Cummins, but will probably give decent service for 100,000 miles or so as long as you don't bomb it too much.

Funny thing is if the only Ram that was available today was my 245HP HO, I would STILL buy it over the Ford or GM current offers... This says a lot since brand loyalty to me is out the windows... .

jarsong

 

[DPelletier]

I know exactly how you feel! I would still be driving my '01 if I had the foresight to order an ETH 6spd in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I really like my '03, and there have definitely been some real improvements, but I would be quite happy with a truck like yours. Also FWIW, I think the 2nd gen ETH's aren't that far off the pre-Jan '04 trucks performance.



As far as brand loyalty goes, I have been a Ford guy for most of my life. I still have four ford F-series trucks and my local Ford dealer knows me by name and they are a great dealership to deal with. Both local DC dealers are not as nice to deal with, but no PSD's for this guy! Even without the motor issue, I do think the Dodge Ram is a better truck than the others. I would buy a Ford IF I could get the Cummins AND the NV5600, just to have a better dealer.

I wouldn't buy a GM. Don't like the frame, don't like the looks, don't like IFS, don't like torsion rods, don't like alum ZF 6 spds, etc. etc.



If I think GM or Ford makes the best truck when I'm ready to buy again, I'll gladly consider them. They have a long way to go though.



Dave

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I've been a Ford and GM fan most of my life - and I'm now 67...



I coulda bought ANY of the "big 3 trucks" I wanted - but bought a new '91 Dodge 250 and drove it trouble free for 11 years and 120,000 - miles. Other than batteries and tires, the ONLY failure was a $12 voltage regulator!



$1 a year for parts failure ain't BAD!



When time came to upgrade arrived, I could still have bought any one I wanted, but based upon past satisfaction and performance of the '91 - and a careful investigation of what Ford and GM offered, took another Dodge - but my decision was based upon fact and first hand experience, NOT frivelous brand loyalty...



Blind, head-in-the-sand (or elsewhere... ) brand loyalty is for kids and idiots, as far as I am concerned - and if/when Ford or GM put out a truck I like better, I'd buy it in a heartbeat (no pun, GM!)

 

[jarsong]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

I've been a Ford and GM fan most of my life - and I'm now 67...



I coulda bought ANY of the "big 3 trucks" I wanted - but bought a new '91 Dodge 250 and drove it trouble free for 11 years and 120,000 - miles. Other than batteries and tires, the ONLY failure was a $12 voltage regulator!



$1 a year for parts failure ain't BAD!



When time came to upgrade arrived, I could still have bought any one I wanted, but based upon past satisfaction and performance of the '91 - and a careful investigation of what Ford and GM offered, took another Dodge - but my decision was based upon fact and first hand experience, NOT frivelous brand loyalty...



Blind, head-in-the-sand (or elsewhere... ) brand loyalty is for kids and idiots, as far as I am concerned - and if/when Ford or GM put out a truck I like better, I'd buy it in a heartbeat (no pun, GM!)

Gary - KJ6Q,

Did you ever hook that Pump wire up? Pretty impressive HP/TQ numbers you got there. For now, I'm content with only my Raptor chip.

jarsong