Why synthetic oil?

[PHaller]

Boy, you don't know how right you are when it comes to licences on earthquake products and additions. I built an addition on my house that was 1700 square feet and did all the framing and foundation work myself. I used a common 2 part constuction epoxy sold at the lumber yard to dowel and glue rebar into the existing foundation at 2 ft. intervals at 16 inches and 36 inches below grade. The lumber yard assured me that they sell it all the time for gluing rebar into foundations and that they have never had any trouble. All subsequent rebar was tied to these dowels prior to the concrete pour. When the county inspector arrived, he commented on how neat the jobsite was and how professional all the formwork and rebar work was. He then asked to see an empty epoxy cartridge. You guessed it! No ISO certification label. I had to redo it all before the concrete went down.
Each one of those blasted cartridges cost 21$, <I used 26 of them for gluing the rebar into the holes> and around 46 hours labor to redrill all the holes; not to mention the rebar cost. I was heart broken and there was no talking the inspector out of his decision.
I learned a valuable lesson though... those little overlooked, seldom read, tiny labels can cost you a fortune in time and materials.
To keep this discussion Ram truck related... that's why I use Chevron Delo with the API label on the top. No one can accuse me of using the wrong oil or an unapproved oil and subsequently, refuse a warranty claim.
-Paul R. Haller-

 

[Oil Man]

Amsoilman,
If I understand you right, you are saying that Amsoil has certified themselves, and has not sent their products in for API approval, yet markets it with the API spec (CH-4 etc. ) on the label. This is like putting the Fox in charge of the hen house and puts severe donuts in my mind. If that is correct then lets compare other fields of business.

Let's say Bill wants to construct an addition to his house and he lives in Calif. Bill does most of the work himself and had done work contracting in the past and knows how to build the addition. He buys some earthquake straps and frames the whole house. He then calls for the inspector to inspect the framing. The inspector then looks at the earthquake straps and says, you have to tear down most of this framing because you have used a NON licensed earthquake strap. Bill says but the guy that sold it to me said that they have tested it them selves and it passes all the tests as that the licensed earthquake straps do. The inspector will say NO, you will have to buy the kind of earthquake strap that is licensed and approved so that I can pass the inspection for your addition. The inspector says that the reason for the licensing is so that when I inspect your addition I can make sure that your building meets the specs that were set forward by the engineers that have spent years looking at how earthquakes shake houses and have done in-depth testing to come up with the right type of material and strength of the material for earthquake stresses.

What about other kinds of licensing. What would happen to you if you did not license your truck? How long do you think you could drive around with no current tags? Or worse than that what if you did not have a license plate at all because you were told that you could just use a USA-1 license plate and it would be OK.

Forget about going to the DMV to get your drivers license. Cracker Jack boxes have licenses and you can put that kind in your wallet to show the cop when he pulls you over for not having any tags on you license plate.

Make sure that the doctor that is going to perform brain surgery on your child is a licensed doctor and that he didn't just say that he has seen it done for years and knows that he could do it just as good. He might say that he has read all the books and has the same knowledge as all the licensed doctors. Sure the doctor would get into loads of trouble, but what about your child?

Don't put the Fox in charge of the hen house. Amsoil is telling you that they pass all of the tests that are required for API approved oils, but they refuse to be approved-------Why?

Licensing keeps everyone honest.

Sincerely, Kevin


[This message has been edited by Oil Man (edited 10-23-2000). ]

 

[Oil Man]

Paul R. Haller,
Man, you sure went through a lot. Sorry to hear about your loss. Certification or licensing means everything to the buyer.

Kevin

 

[amsoilman]

Oilman,
First off, Amsoil does not have to be Licensed to display their rateings on a bottle of oil. They do have to have the API license to display the "Donut"! They are not against the laws governing oils. If they were, do you not think after 27 plus years of being in this business, some "major" engine manufacturer would have taken them to court?

How about the API? And yes, they do test their oils all the time as well as others, but they also use independent testing companies as well. Check out the label on the series 2000 5W-30 Diesel oil. ("as tested by an independent lab") DO you think if this were not true, they would have that on each label? Common sense tells me they are telling as it is! Look at what has happend the last few years in regards to some oil additive companies, such as Duralube, Motorup, Prolong, Castrol. Don't you think Amsoil would be afraid of putting wrong information on their labels? Again common sense!

Best regards,

Amsoilman

------------------
94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.
Wayne Owen

 

[JohnB]

Man, this sparked quite alot of opinions (as it always does). Quality oils are good in either form. The one thing not mentioned yet is the loss of addititive package during extended drain intervals. The additives are used up doing what they were designed for(suspending soot, counteracting acids etc. ) Most long drain oils are designed for some consumption to allow the make-up oil to help replensh the additives. The base oil stock will live a very long time in either form. Just my opinion based on 20 years working with oil companies while managing a very large construction fleet.
ps. I used Mobil 1 in my wifes start and go car and D-A petroleum oil in my 5. 9

 

[Riflesmith]

I don’t care if Amsoil has the “doughnut” or not, I will trust my oil analysis results as proof of quality protection. I just received my second oil analysis results. Oil is Amsoil 5w-30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil. I have the Amsoil bypass filter and use Fleetguard 3894 Stratapore full flow filters. Scotty Air System.
The results after 15,000 miles:

Aluminum----2ppm
Chromium----1ppm
Copper----8ppm
Iron----28ppm
Lead----5ppm
Nickel----0
Silver----0
Tin----1ppm
Molybdenum----0
Silicon----8ppm
Sodium----0ppm
Antifreeze----0
Fuel----0
Water----0
Soot(%trans. )----0
Viscosity(SUS)----285
TBN----11. 7
I take my samples out of the center-well of the oil filter immediately after it is removed. This should be a good, representative sample since it is this oil that goes directly to the engine following filtration. Looks to me like those who don’t trust Amsoil to protect their engines properly are now being confronted with facts instead of speculation.


------------------
99,2500,ISB,QC,6sp,3. 54,4x4, turbo silencer ring removed, Scotty System, B&W Turnover Ball Gooseneck Hitch, Amsoil Bypass Oil Filter System/Amsoil 3000 Oil. ISSPRO Boost and Pyro Guages, Apprentice member of BOMB.

 

[cjackg]

With the amount of rhetoric and pure b. s. I have read on this site, there is no way I would switch to a synthetic from proven experience with Shell Rotella ! After a 15k roundtrip to Alaska with no problems towing a 13,000 lb trailer I am sure I have good lubricants and dont need synthetics.

------------------
2001 RAM 4x2 SLT "ETH DEE" 3500 QC Flame Red! Rhino Liner, Airlift Airbags, Lance 1130 Camper.

 

[LandShark]

Here are the results of a recent oil analysis after 5800 miles of driving with a 3300 pound slidein camper in mostly 100 degree+ temps. Oil is Rotella 15w40 run thru a Fram oil filter. Air Filter is K&N.

Aluminum----2ppm
Chromium----1ppm
Copper----1ppm
Iron----11ppm
Lead----1ppm
Manganese----0
Nickel----0
Silver----0
Tin----0
Molybdenum----0
Silicon----3ppm
Sodium----3ppm
Antifreeze----0
Fuel----0
Water----0

I don't think there's much doubt that this is quite good (especially compared to 'Riflesmith' above with a much newer Ram) and is a heck of a lot cheaper than running synthetic and having all that bypass junk.

I do run synthetic oil in the Dana 70 and the transfer case. The Dana 70 rear end gets synthetic because I run it at or a little over it's maximum rated load. The transfer case gets it because I never change it!

I also run synthetic oil in the wife's import. She never let's it warm up and it's a little engine running full blast in temps anywhere from 25 to 110 degrees. This is where these oils excell!


------------------
1995 2500 SLT Club 4x4, auto, 3. 54, 3300 pound Elkhorn slide in camper, AirLift air springs, Ricka dual wheel adapters, K&N, DC tow hooks, Rancho RS9000, Hellwig rear sway bar.
107,000 miles and counting.

[This message has been edited by LandShark (edited 10-30-2000). ]

 

[John]

Keep in mind LandShark, Riflesmith had 15,000 miles on his sample as opposed to your 5,800 miles. That is roughly 2. 6 times the mileage on his oil.

 

[The patriot]

I'm using Rotella T 15w-40. I change it every 3500-4500 miles. Filter and grease too.
If the Amsoil was 1/2 the price that it is, I'd probibally go for it.
My brother uses the Rotella in his Peterbilt with a 425 Cat. He DOES NOT USE OIL BETWEEN CHANGES !!! I think this speaks enough for this oil. Good stuff.
My last new car was an 87 Buick Grand National. It had the V-6 turbo engine.
I used Mobil 1 from about 5000 miles on. I changes the oil and filter every 3000-4000 miles. (it's cheap enough, only holds 5 quarts)
When I got this truck, I had to get rid of the Buick. It had 110000 miles but ran better than new. (low 12 sec car driven daily)
My little brother ended up "inheriting" it.
Since it was new it had a rear main seal leak. (rope seal) He brought it to a shop to get done. Nobody there could believe that the eng has never been rebuilt. They were amased that it was so spotless inside, and the cylinders still had the cross hatch!!
I'd go for the Amsoil but cant justify a $75. 00 oil change every 6000 miles.
I just cant bring myself to run the miles that it can be run. 30000 miles on an oil change???? This is something that I just couldnt do.
Sorry for the long read.

------------------
98 Quad cab 4X4 2500 12 valve,5 speed,3. 54 rears, 8' bed. Boost and egt gauges but basicly stock except for a "properly adjusted" AFC. Cat in the garage. Uniden HR 2510, Texas Star 1200 amp. 59,000 Mi as of 10/21/00.
NRA life member. High power/IDPA.

 

[Sled Puller]

Patriot,
I love your post! I know Amsoil is awesome, but I don't want to spend the money! You are right, too much $$$ to dump every 6000! I'm at 25,000 right now.
Extending drains is a hard pill to swallow. But keep in mind, a lot of big companys are doing this with ROT GUT oil. Not even the good stuff like Shell, Delo, Premium blue, etc.
Hey, it is not for everyone, but the people who are doing this are quite happy. It doesn't mean anybody is wrong for doing something different, or following the crowd.

Hey Columbus! Don't you know the world, shee isa flat!

------------------
WANTED: Wrecked Dodges. 1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 Bombed & Amsoiled
Member of TDR,LIC-ROC,GLTDR,NRA www.awdist.com

 

[Sky]

LOL i like the Sig. Lmao

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2001 QuadCab,SWB,Auto, 4X4,4" Flowmaster Exhaust, Bosch 275 Injectors... ... ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
4-Sale 1994 4X4 cummins, Two tone blue and silver,Auto, all stock 105k very well looked after
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[illflem]

Since I started this thread I'll keep the "score"

10-use syn oil and swear by it

14-use petro oil and swear by it

One thing I noticed counting it up though is that the folks that use syn seem to defend it more. Nothing wrong with that. Since it's almost a tie I'd say that both ways work great,it's just a matter of preference.

 

[Sled Puller]

Illflem,
That poll is incredible! WAY above the national average. It just goes to show you how much more intelligent some of the Cummins guys are who are using Synthetics!

We defend it more?

Maybe because we are ATTACKED with myths and rumors every day! Hey did ya know ferd owns Cummins?

Great thread, I have enjoyed it very much!

------------------
WANTED: Wrecked Dodges. 1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 Bombed & Amsoiled
Member of TDR,LIC-ROC,GLTDR,NRA www.awdist.com

 

[DavidD]

I cant resist any longer! I have used both syn. and petro for quite a while(32yrs). I guess I am amazed at how peoples opinion difers on the subject. I researched amsoil when I bought my truck in 98. I wanted to make sure the engine had the best protection possible. When I had 10k on the truck I swichted to amsoil. It now has 68K on it nad it runs better than new. I also run syn. in all the boxes. I check the milage almost every tank and I average about 19 and have gotten as good as 24. the truck uses no oil. Now I have to admit I still fall into the Frank Simkowski of changing my oil every 3to4
K. With the amsoil I manage to wait till 7. 5K or so and it still kills me too wait so long. someday I hope to get over the illness.
My last car I bought new was a 1986 VW jetta.
It had 410,000 on the speedo when my last teenage son wrecked it and it ran good I used syn. most of the time in that engine. He then bought my 90 isuzu trooper with 210,000 on it and had to replace the head as it cracked. This was done in a college auto engineering class. The teacher could not believe the pistons cyl. and bearings , no signs of wear! Amsoil! I also do not pay 6or7 bucks a quart. Just become a dealer and sell it to yourself! I end up ordering more now all my friends are using it! Good luck!!
---------------------------------
98. 5 2500quad,slt,bd brake,exhast,power mod,gauges, alloys,rancho 9Ks, tows 3 hayburners up the hills everyweek. and blows my buddies ps away!

 

[drawson]

This has been a great thread. Now my 2c worth. Before I started teaching I was an ASE Master automotive techician for 16 years. I am an AmsOil Dealer now thanks to Wayne (AmsOilman) My last pre Ram truck was a 88 Ford 460FI 5 speed it had 135,000 mile on it when I did the timing chain, install a bigger cam and did a valve job(put in screw in studs and adjustable rockers). I had owned this truck since it had 77 miles on it and changed the oil every 3,000 mile using Quaker 5W-30 in the winter and 20W-50 in the summer. This motor was sickly(unbelievibly dirty) inside. Two weeks later I had a guy come in the shop and I did a valve job(studs and rockers) on 85 460 (carb) that had been running AmsOil and hadn't had the oil changed in 50,000 miles. This motor looked like brand new inside. It was unbelievibly clean. This guy tried to recruit me at that time and the marketing system scared me off.

Now with my Ram it was a no brainer. I have just over 15,000 miles on the oil now and haved change the full flow filter twice and the bypass once. Three oil anal. all say the oil is in great shape. I'll probibly go at least 50,000 miles on this 15W-40 before changing to the 5W-30 oil.

I'm sold on AmsOil and not defensive at all. If you want the best run AmsOil, If all you want is what everybody else is happy with run what you are. It's to bad AmsOil doesn't make a lube for my Knees that would fix me right up LOL

------------------
EAT'M UP
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, & Psychotty Air System, TST #11, 370 HP injectors, 16CM2 housing, AFC spring kit, Geno's Exhaust Blanket, TST EGT gauge & 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, AmsOil Through out, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil Bypass system, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 255/85R16, Dyno'd 342 HP pre injectors & turbo housing *NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*

 

[lshalz]

Been using Amsoil in my old 95 cummins, change filter and add one quart, every 5000,
do complete oil change every 40000 miles, now have way over 100000 miles on engine, does not use any oil.
had a flat tire on truck yesterday, mabe the anti synthetic people will say it's cause I was using Amsoil.

------------------
95,2500,cc,auto,4+2.

All stock,I save all my money for booze,and

VIAGRA!!!!!!

 

[BillH]

Originally posted by drawson:
This has been a great thread. Now my 2c worth. Before I started teaching I was an ASE Master automotive techician for 16 years. I am an AmsOil Dealer now thanks to Wayne (AmsOilman) My last pre Ram truck was a 88 Ford 460FI 5 speed it had 135,000 mile on it when I did the timing chain, install a bigger cam and did a valve job(put in screw in studs and adjustable rockers). I had owned this truck since it had 77 miles on it and changed the oil every 3,000 mile using Quaker 5W-30 in the winter and 20W-50 in the summer. This motor was sickly(unbelievibly dirty) inside. Two weeks later I had a guy come in the shop and I did a valve job(studs and rockers) on 85 460 (carb) that had been running AmsOil and hadn't had the oil changed in 50,000 miles. This motor looked like brand new inside. It was unbelievibly clean. This guy tried to recruit me at that time and the marketing system scared me off.

Now with my Ram it was a no brainer. I have just over 15,000 miles on the oil now and haved change the full flow filter twice and the bypass once. Three oil anal. all say the oil is in great shape. I'll probibly go at least 50,000 miles on this 15W-40 before changing to the 5W-30 oil.

I'm sold on AmsOil and not defensive at all. If you want the best run AmsOil, If all you want is what everybody else is happy with run what you are. It's to bad AmsOil doesn't make a lube for my Knees that would fix me right up LOL

I am about to change to amsoil synthetic 15w-40, at 15000 miles, and am just curious as to why you plan on changing to 5w-30 at 50000 versus staying with 15w-40?

 

[drawson]

I looked on the spec on both the 5W-30 and the 15W-40 oil and from what I see that will be my choice for better protection. I have also talked to Blackstone about the two oil and they helped with my discission.

 

[Sasquatch]

Amsoil owners must be figuring to drive their trucks for twenty years in an effort to justify the added expense of the exotic lubricants they're running.

My problem with that is that, most people are going to trade their vehicles (even if they state otherwise, initially) WAY, WAY SOONER than they will wear out a Cummins engine -- even if they ran thinned bear grease in the crankcase. Let's be real, here...

Also, nobody is going to pay anything for a twenty year old truck with 600,000 miles on it; I don't care how pretty the shrine to the God Of Amsoil (complete with blinking neon lights) is in the front yard, the day the guy comes to look at your antique. You're gonna say, "Hey, my Cummins is just like new 'cause I've been running an exotic lubricant in the crankcase!" And the buyer is going to say, "Yeah, I'll give you fifteen hundred bucks for the engine as soon as you pull it out of that rusted out bucket of bolts it's buried in. "

(entering witness protection plan -- don't even think about it... ) #ad
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