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Why synthetic oil?
- Thread starter illflem
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Illflem:
I'll tell you my theory on the oil vs. synthetic issue: The guys running Amsoil are romantics who are pure in heart, noble of spirit, and the subject of P. T. Barnum's famous quote, "There's a sucker born every minute. "
On the other hand, those wretched cynics who refuse to entertain the notion that it's a realistic goal to put a kazillion miles on the same Dodge chassis (while dutifully sending off "samples" to prove we're intent upon reaching that goal... ) probably kick small dogs, have no friends, and don't change their underwear regularly either... .
So, it's the cynics against the romantics, I guess. Who to side with, THAT IS THE QUESTION! (pause -- contemplating the heavens. . ) Who to side with... . ?? Hmmmm... . ? It's a puzzlement.
This is WAY MORE FUN than pulling the wings off flies!
#ad
[This message has been edited by Sasquatch (edited 10-31-2000). ]
I'll tell you my theory on the oil vs. synthetic issue: The guys running Amsoil are romantics who are pure in heart, noble of spirit, and the subject of P. T. Barnum's famous quote, "There's a sucker born every minute. "
On the other hand, those wretched cynics who refuse to entertain the notion that it's a realistic goal to put a kazillion miles on the same Dodge chassis (while dutifully sending off "samples" to prove we're intent upon reaching that goal... ) probably kick small dogs, have no friends, and don't change their underwear regularly either... .
So, it's the cynics against the romantics, I guess. Who to side with, THAT IS THE QUESTION! (pause -- contemplating the heavens. . ) Who to side with... . ?? Hmmmm... . ? It's a puzzlement.
This is WAY MORE FUN than pulling the wings off flies!
#ad[This message has been edited by Sasquatch (edited 10-31-2000). ]
Hi illflem, I enjoyed our little chat a while back.
Guys, I have used amsoil since 1973 in every thing I have, from lawnmowers to 350 hp 4WD farm tractor, and I'm real happy with it. I'll bet I spend less on oil and filters than you do changing oil & filter every 3 or 4K with $. 97 qt. oil.
Sas, your THEORY reminds me of the wino that came into a bar one morning as bartender was just opening, sat down and ordered a drink, and said, bartender did I ever explain Einstein's THEORY of relativity to you, bartender says, no but before you start, I'd like to ask you something, wino says, OK, bartender says, OK, you have a pasture with nice green grass, and a nice pond full of water, a cow eats this grass and drinks that water and craps a pile about 8" to 12' around, a horse eats that grass, drinks that water and craps balls about size of a tennis ball, a rabbit eats the same grass, and drinks that same water, and craps little ball about the size of peas, can you explain that to me? Wino thinks for a while, and says no I can't. Bartender says, see there, you want to explain Einstein's THEORY of relativity to me, and you don't know I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER!!
#ad
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#ad
#ad
Larry
Guys, I have used amsoil since 1973 in every thing I have, from lawnmowers to 350 hp 4WD farm tractor, and I'm real happy with it. I'll bet I spend less on oil and filters than you do changing oil & filter every 3 or 4K with $. 97 qt. oil.
Sas, your THEORY reminds me of the wino that came into a bar one morning as bartender was just opening, sat down and ordered a drink, and said, bartender did I ever explain Einstein's THEORY of relativity to you, bartender says, no but before you start, I'd like to ask you something, wino says, OK, bartender says, OK, you have a pasture with nice green grass, and a nice pond full of water, a cow eats this grass and drinks that water and craps a pile about 8" to 12' around, a horse eats that grass, drinks that water and craps balls about size of a tennis ball, a rabbit eats the same grass, and drinks that same water, and craps little ball about the size of peas, can you explain that to me? Wino thinks for a while, and says no I can't. Bartender says, see there, you want to explain Einstein's THEORY of relativity to me, and you don't know I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER!!
#ad#ad#ad#adLarry
Sas...
I'm w/ you on the crank case... Cummins frowns on extending the intervals in one of their publications citing variability in analysis among other things. I just don't care for the economics of it. Buy the time someone buys all that $OIL, A BYPA$$ UNIT, SPEND $$$ GETTING TESTING DONE AND ADDING MORE $$$OIL DURING FILTER CHANGES... UNLESS YOU DRIVE IT ALL YOUR DOG KICK'N DAYS... THE SHORT RUN ECONOMICS ARE AGAINST YOU.
I'm holding out on the transmission unless someone gets there stuff tested and certified... until then its just MTX.
Out back I'm all over a quality synthetic.
Loved the Dog Kick'n Crack! LOL
Ps. I DO NOT RECALL "THE MILLION MILE RAM" IN TDR SPORTING A BYPASS FILTER OR ANY MENTION OF AMSOIL IN THE ARTICLE. I'D LOVE TO KNOW HOW THAT RIG WAS CARED FOR OVER THE LAST 984,000 MILES!
Max
[This message has been edited by Mad Max (edited 10-31-2000). ]
I'm w/ you on the crank case... Cummins frowns on extending the intervals in one of their publications citing variability in analysis among other things. I just don't care for the economics of it. Buy the time someone buys all that $OIL, A BYPA$$ UNIT, SPEND $$$ GETTING TESTING DONE AND ADDING MORE $$$OIL DURING FILTER CHANGES... UNLESS YOU DRIVE IT ALL YOUR DOG KICK'N DAYS... THE SHORT RUN ECONOMICS ARE AGAINST YOU.
I'm holding out on the transmission unless someone gets there stuff tested and certified... until then its just MTX.
Out back I'm all over a quality synthetic.
Loved the Dog Kick'n Crack! LOL
Ps. I DO NOT RECALL "THE MILLION MILE RAM" IN TDR SPORTING A BYPASS FILTER OR ANY MENTION OF AMSOIL IN THE ARTICLE. I'D LOVE TO KNOW HOW THAT RIG WAS CARED FOR OVER THE LAST 984,000 MILES!
Max
[This message has been edited by Mad Max (edited 10-31-2000). ]
This is for all you old-timer(my daddy did it that so I am to. ) stuck in your ways, blind people. ( The deaf people are using Amsoil)
When my Dodge body is junk, I plan on ordering a cab & chassis, and putting my 600,000, NON COMPUTER CONTROLLED 12 valve,like new Amsoiled engine right in that baby and motor on for 600,000 more!
You guys will be lining up to pay MARCO to fix your computers, or ordering EXOTIC, ALUMINUM V-8 Diesels!
Trade in value? If I was going to trade it, I would never change the oil. This baby is a keeper.
Amsoil pays off in the short run, as well as the long run. If you have not tried it, I guess you are just talking ^%$#!!!!!!!!
Were we not all suckers when we gave Dodge $30,000 + for these tin and plastic hoopies?
I only kick small dogs when they bark, define "friends", and yes, I do change the undergutchies regularly.
To you nonbelievers, try the Amsoil 2-stroke oil. Use it once, you'll buy a case. Unless you are so stuck in your ways you refuse to believe something is better than what you are using now!
------------------
WANTED: Wrecked Dodges. 1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 Bombed & Amsoiled
Member of TDR,LIC-ROC,GLTDR,NRA www.awdist.com
When my Dodge body is junk, I plan on ordering a cab & chassis, and putting my 600,000, NON COMPUTER CONTROLLED 12 valve,like new Amsoiled engine right in that baby and motor on for 600,000 more!
You guys will be lining up to pay MARCO to fix your computers, or ordering EXOTIC, ALUMINUM V-8 Diesels!
Trade in value? If I was going to trade it, I would never change the oil. This baby is a keeper.
Amsoil pays off in the short run, as well as the long run. If you have not tried it, I guess you are just talking ^%$#!!!!!!!!
Were we not all suckers when we gave Dodge $30,000 + for these tin and plastic hoopies?
I only kick small dogs when they bark, define "friends", and yes, I do change the undergutchies regularly.
To you nonbelievers, try the Amsoil 2-stroke oil. Use it once, you'll buy a case. Unless you are so stuck in your ways you refuse to believe something is better than what you are using now!
------------------
WANTED: Wrecked Dodges. 1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 Bombed & Amsoiled
Member of TDR,LIC-ROC,GLTDR,NRA www.awdist.com
MGM:
More power to you, dude. Maybe you can make your "investment" pay off. I, for one, am rooting for you! (Cue applause... )
The liklihood is, however, that most folks who've been bamboozled into buying all these remote whoosywhats and funky test kits WON'T make it pay off. They'll keep their trucks for an indeterminate period of time, then sell them; this will happen, either by choice, or because of the dictates of fate. (death, unexpected financial exigencies, etc. ) And, it will happen LONG before the engine needs a rebuild -- unless they've been running sand in the crankcase...
Another question which I haven't seen addressed is the marketability of the truck at resale. I decided, years ago, that I was going to keep my truck for a long, long time. Say, maybe even 10 years, before I sold it. By that time I figured I'd be taking my teeth out at night, anyway. So, I took a chance, "became my own warranty station," and began messing around with my truck. I decided to hang all kinds of aftermarket crap all over a perfectly beautiful and functional machine "to make it better!" I changed the stock steering geometry, wheels, tires, suspension, lights, and interior of my truck. I cut and spliced wires, welded on steel, bolted on aluminum, removed relays, and "tweaked" the engine. In the process, ironically, I probably diminished the value and saleability of my truck.
When we market a "used" vehicle (according to the "experts," anyway... ) the aim is to make it, in as far as possible, as much like any other vehicle of that model type as we can -- as close to "stock" as possible. This way the vehicle will have the broadest appeal for the most people. Great service records and a pristine appearance are a big help, no doubt, but that's about the most you can do to "enhance" saleability. Personally, I think my truck is gorgeous -- my brother, "a Phord driver," tells me it looks like two alcoholic, Mexican field hands bought it after winning the lottery... (maybe the stainless rockers, custom mudflaps, and ermine dash protector were too much, at that... )
Now consider the buyer who shows up to purchase your 6 year old pride-and-joy. Suspend your disbelief for a second and play along. Let's say that, regrettably, you find yourself facing tragic circumstances and have to sell your truck. Or, say it's because you have limited funds, and you need to come up with some cash to speed up that patent application on your newly revised "propeller beanie," prototype.
So, imagine that a prospective buyer is standing there in your driveway as you proudly expound upon your judicious and farsighted use of synthetics in the crankcase. He's initially wowed by your demonstration as you lovingly caress the hoses that lead to your whizbang, Amsoil, "remote filtration" whatchamacallit. You go on, at length, about the benefits of "drawing samples" and mailing them off to the laboratory in Kickmynutz, WI. (this is when the guy's eyes start to glaze over, I'm guessin'... ) Now comes the good part, as the guy says, (... after commenting on how neat your prototype propeller beanie is... ) "Well, I've got a case and a half of Shell Rotella in the basement that I'm planning to use up, first. "
Now is when you really hit your sales stride. You're about to close the sale for sure, 'cause you're going to explain to "Fred" that he will NEVER HAVE TO USE conventional oil again! He'll never again have to deal with the burden of purchasing his oil at any corner filling station, easy-to-find K-Mart, Pep Boys, Walmart or Sam's Club; that inconvenience is a thing of the past! This is where you tell Fred about the new and rewarding, personal relationship he's going to cultivate with his new BEST friend, THE AMSOIL DEALER!!!
Bye, bye, Fred!
More power to you, dude. Maybe you can make your "investment" pay off. I, for one, am rooting for you! (Cue applause... )
The liklihood is, however, that most folks who've been bamboozled into buying all these remote whoosywhats and funky test kits WON'T make it pay off. They'll keep their trucks for an indeterminate period of time, then sell them; this will happen, either by choice, or because of the dictates of fate. (death, unexpected financial exigencies, etc. ) And, it will happen LONG before the engine needs a rebuild -- unless they've been running sand in the crankcase...
Another question which I haven't seen addressed is the marketability of the truck at resale. I decided, years ago, that I was going to keep my truck for a long, long time. Say, maybe even 10 years, before I sold it. By that time I figured I'd be taking my teeth out at night, anyway. So, I took a chance, "became my own warranty station," and began messing around with my truck. I decided to hang all kinds of aftermarket crap all over a perfectly beautiful and functional machine "to make it better!" I changed the stock steering geometry, wheels, tires, suspension, lights, and interior of my truck. I cut and spliced wires, welded on steel, bolted on aluminum, removed relays, and "tweaked" the engine. In the process, ironically, I probably diminished the value and saleability of my truck.
When we market a "used" vehicle (according to the "experts," anyway... ) the aim is to make it, in as far as possible, as much like any other vehicle of that model type as we can -- as close to "stock" as possible. This way the vehicle will have the broadest appeal for the most people. Great service records and a pristine appearance are a big help, no doubt, but that's about the most you can do to "enhance" saleability. Personally, I think my truck is gorgeous -- my brother, "a Phord driver," tells me it looks like two alcoholic, Mexican field hands bought it after winning the lottery... (maybe the stainless rockers, custom mudflaps, and ermine dash protector were too much, at that... )
Now consider the buyer who shows up to purchase your 6 year old pride-and-joy. Suspend your disbelief for a second and play along. Let's say that, regrettably, you find yourself facing tragic circumstances and have to sell your truck. Or, say it's because you have limited funds, and you need to come up with some cash to speed up that patent application on your newly revised "propeller beanie," prototype.
So, imagine that a prospective buyer is standing there in your driveway as you proudly expound upon your judicious and farsighted use of synthetics in the crankcase. He's initially wowed by your demonstration as you lovingly caress the hoses that lead to your whizbang, Amsoil, "remote filtration" whatchamacallit. You go on, at length, about the benefits of "drawing samples" and mailing them off to the laboratory in Kickmynutz, WI. (this is when the guy's eyes start to glaze over, I'm guessin'... ) Now comes the good part, as the guy says, (... after commenting on how neat your prototype propeller beanie is... ) "Well, I've got a case and a half of Shell Rotella in the basement that I'm planning to use up, first. "
Now is when you really hit your sales stride. You're about to close the sale for sure, 'cause you're going to explain to "Fred" that he will NEVER HAVE TO USE conventional oil again! He'll never again have to deal with the burden of purchasing his oil at any corner filling station, easy-to-find K-Mart, Pep Boys, Walmart or Sam's Club; that inconvenience is a thing of the past! This is where you tell Fred about the new and rewarding, personal relationship he's going to cultivate with his new BEST friend, THE AMSOIL DEALER!!!
Bye, bye, Fred!
MGM wrote:
"... Amsoil pays off in the short run, as well as the long run... "[/b]
Let's put your theory to the test. I've got right at 70,000 miles on my truck and have used bear-scat in the crankcase (Shell Rotella 15W-40) since it was new. Oil has been changed every 3,000 miles, faithfully. I pay about $31. 00 a case for 6 gallons of Rotella at my local Walmart here in Atlanta. Rotella can be purchased by the drum, which would further reduce expenses, significantly, but I'm figuring my cost per quart is around 90¢ (including tax). I've done 23 oil changes and spent, about $230. 00 on oil. Toss in another $200 for 23 "Microglass" filters. My truck uses no oil at all between changes.
So, for well under $500 I've limped along using conventional oil to keep my engine running and, again, it could'a been done a lot cheaper if I bought by-the-drum...
'Kay, it's your turn. Let's say I reached the same mileage point running Amsoil, with remote filtration, regular testing and synthetics in the crankcase. How much money would you have saved me, so far?#ad
#ad
#ad
"... Amsoil pays off in the short run, as well as the long run... "[/b]
Let's put your theory to the test. I've got right at 70,000 miles on my truck and have used bear-scat in the crankcase (Shell Rotella 15W-40) since it was new. Oil has been changed every 3,000 miles, faithfully. I pay about $31. 00 a case for 6 gallons of Rotella at my local Walmart here in Atlanta. Rotella can be purchased by the drum, which would further reduce expenses, significantly, but I'm figuring my cost per quart is around 90¢ (including tax). I've done 23 oil changes and spent, about $230. 00 on oil. Toss in another $200 for 23 "Microglass" filters. My truck uses no oil at all between changes.
So, for well under $500 I've limped along using conventional oil to keep my engine running and, again, it could'a been done a lot cheaper if I bought by-the-drum...
'Kay, it's your turn. Let's say I reached the same mileage point running Amsoil, with remote filtration, regular testing and synthetics in the crankcase. How much money would you have saved me, so far?
#ad#ad#adHC,
ROTFL!!
For what that stuff costs, it should be sold by the thimble and marketed as a skin emollient at Rosie O'Donnell's national chain of makeover/health spas.
Plus, she could market it as a product that reduces inner-thigh friction when her clients waddle along in Million Mom Marches; there'd be ample room to mount the bypass filters on those chassis.
(... 'course who'd volunteer to take the "samples?")
#ad
ROTFL!!
For what that stuff costs, it should be sold by the thimble and marketed as a skin emollient at Rosie O'Donnell's national chain of makeover/health spas.
Plus, she could market it as a product that reduces inner-thigh friction when her clients waddle along in Million Mom Marches; there'd be ample room to mount the bypass filters on those chassis.
(... 'course who'd volunteer to take the "samples?")
#adWARNING: LONG!
I agree with JohnB: "Quality oils are good in either form. "
Sasquatch was right when he said: "Nobody is going to pay anything for a twenty year old truck with 600,000 miles on it. " Sasquatch made a number of other points I agreed with too. But when he quoted "There's a sucker born every minute", then I have to flip over and slightly mis-quote MGM: "Why defend it more? Maybe it is because we are ATTACKED... every day!"
Nobody ever pays me anything for my used vehicles anyway, because I USE THEM UP. I actually sold one car TWICE, each time for $1. I sold it with a condition, when you get tired of it, you have to sell it back to me for $1. After the first sale, a few months later the friend collected enough cash to buy a new car and sold it back. Later, along comes a second friend, needing cheap transportation for a teenage son, and bingo, sold it again for less than the value of the gas in the gas tank. (Synthetic in engine, still running strong at 390,000, but that's not my main point. )
So at this point, you're thinking I'm crazy/stupid/a sucker for using syn, since even I admit I'll get tired of the vehicle or other stuff will break long before I hit the 1,000,000 mark, and because I could probably do 500,000 on any good petro, and maybe still hit 1,000,000 on something extra good like the LE formulation.
I still say it is not that simple. Cost? I can make the numbers say whatever I want them to say (and believe me, I have run the numbers both ways). Extend the changes to 5k on any petro, or longer for LE, and petro is cheaper. Extend the changes way out on synthetic, the gap closes, maybe even nods in favor of syn. Add in frequent oil analysis, cost of syn goes up again. But if we really want to get down to cost and telling each other how we should spend our money, then I'll bet I could make a pretty good case that more than 50% of the people on this board can't "justify" the Cummins. The recent post on "how many miles" had very few answers in the 150,000+ category. Many don't even tow anything, have no need for this amount of power, and/or could go faster in a much less expensive vehicle.
Let's talk convienience. If I changed every 3k, for me that would be about every third weekend. Nope, not for me. Maybe when I retire and have more time. 6k? That's still every 5 or 6 weeks. I live for the weekends; I'm not eager to give up almost 20% of my Saturdays lying in my driveway under the truck, especially during the winter (too cold), the summer (too hot) or the rest of the year (too many mosquitos). Oops, that means I don't really want to be on my back in the driveway any more than whatever is the minimum! I could pay someone else - but, I'd rather do it myself and keep others out from under my hood. I think minimizing the access of the incompetent and the uncaring to your engine is one of the secrets of long life.
Let's talk minimizing impact on the environment. Nah, that argument won't sell well on this forum, think I'll skip it and go to the next. How about this one:
By the time I throw in oil analysis, and combine it with the fact that I don't feel comfortable going for the really long change intervals, yep, I'm paying a little more. But on another thread is a tale of woe from an engine that broke at 140,000 miles. A problem with extra fuel earlier in the engine life was the culprit; maybe this would have been caught sooner with frequent oil analysis. Maybe not. Maybe my K&N is letting in too much dust; maybe not - but oil analysis every 5k or 10k will keep me from losing too much sleep over this one. I could make a pretty good case that EVERYONE, petro and syn users, should do the oil analysis as cheap insurance. But the fact is most folks don't and the majority will get by without spending the $$ just fine, so I won't try to convince anyone, I'm just saying the synthetic + oil analysis combo works well for me.
For my pattern of "moderate" extended changes and oil analysis, I estimate I'm spending about $500 more per year than with a "regular changes, no analysis" alternative. If I added oil analysis to a petro change schedule, the cost difference would drop to about $350 per year. I'm getting some peace of mind, and I'll probably NOT need to bolt on a new turbo anytime during my ownership of the vehicle, which means another way to keep DC out from under my hood. I'll get to shut down 2 to 3 minutes sooner, multiple times per day, during the hot part of the summer by using 325 instead of 300 as my cue, and I won't have to walk away from my vehicle wondering if this is the day that fancy switch is going to malfunction and leave my engine running. I'll fire right up in the coldest weather, and not need to change my oil with the seasons. And if I keep my "worthless" vehicle 1 or 2 years longer before I get the itch, well, just how much would 35k in the stock market earn in that 2 years, anyway? A lot more than $500 X 10 years, I believe. So now who's being "stupid" with their money? (Answer: NOBODY. We're just making different choices. )
I'm completely happy with my choice. I fully understand that different driving patterns, exposure to different data, different past experiences, or different priorities might lead to a different choice. I feel no need to convert anyone; this is not religion or politics. But I also feel no need to call others "stupid", "suckers", or other names just because their decision in this matter is different than mine. Please return the favor! (most of you already do, and for that I thank you#ad
)
------------------
2001 ETH, QC, LWB, 4WD, 3. 54, SPA Pyro & Boost, K&N RE-880 w/foam pre-cleaner, ARE Z-series Cab-high shell, Rear ARB locker, and all kinds of synthetic fluids...
I agree with JohnB: "Quality oils are good in either form. "
Sasquatch was right when he said: "Nobody is going to pay anything for a twenty year old truck with 600,000 miles on it. " Sasquatch made a number of other points I agreed with too. But when he quoted "There's a sucker born every minute", then I have to flip over and slightly mis-quote MGM: "Why defend it more? Maybe it is because we are ATTACKED... every day!"
Nobody ever pays me anything for my used vehicles anyway, because I USE THEM UP. I actually sold one car TWICE, each time for $1. I sold it with a condition, when you get tired of it, you have to sell it back to me for $1. After the first sale, a few months later the friend collected enough cash to buy a new car and sold it back. Later, along comes a second friend, needing cheap transportation for a teenage son, and bingo, sold it again for less than the value of the gas in the gas tank. (Synthetic in engine, still running strong at 390,000, but that's not my main point. )
So at this point, you're thinking I'm crazy/stupid/a sucker for using syn, since even I admit I'll get tired of the vehicle or other stuff will break long before I hit the 1,000,000 mark, and because I could probably do 500,000 on any good petro, and maybe still hit 1,000,000 on something extra good like the LE formulation.
I still say it is not that simple. Cost? I can make the numbers say whatever I want them to say (and believe me, I have run the numbers both ways). Extend the changes to 5k on any petro, or longer for LE, and petro is cheaper. Extend the changes way out on synthetic, the gap closes, maybe even nods in favor of syn. Add in frequent oil analysis, cost of syn goes up again. But if we really want to get down to cost and telling each other how we should spend our money, then I'll bet I could make a pretty good case that more than 50% of the people on this board can't "justify" the Cummins. The recent post on "how many miles" had very few answers in the 150,000+ category. Many don't even tow anything, have no need for this amount of power, and/or could go faster in a much less expensive vehicle.
Let's talk convienience. If I changed every 3k, for me that would be about every third weekend. Nope, not for me. Maybe when I retire and have more time. 6k? That's still every 5 or 6 weeks. I live for the weekends; I'm not eager to give up almost 20% of my Saturdays lying in my driveway under the truck, especially during the winter (too cold), the summer (too hot) or the rest of the year (too many mosquitos). Oops, that means I don't really want to be on my back in the driveway any more than whatever is the minimum! I could pay someone else - but, I'd rather do it myself and keep others out from under my hood. I think minimizing the access of the incompetent and the uncaring to your engine is one of the secrets of long life.
Let's talk minimizing impact on the environment. Nah, that argument won't sell well on this forum, think I'll skip it and go to the next. How about this one:
By the time I throw in oil analysis, and combine it with the fact that I don't feel comfortable going for the really long change intervals, yep, I'm paying a little more. But on another thread is a tale of woe from an engine that broke at 140,000 miles. A problem with extra fuel earlier in the engine life was the culprit; maybe this would have been caught sooner with frequent oil analysis. Maybe not. Maybe my K&N is letting in too much dust; maybe not - but oil analysis every 5k or 10k will keep me from losing too much sleep over this one. I could make a pretty good case that EVERYONE, petro and syn users, should do the oil analysis as cheap insurance. But the fact is most folks don't and the majority will get by without spending the $$ just fine, so I won't try to convince anyone, I'm just saying the synthetic + oil analysis combo works well for me.
For my pattern of "moderate" extended changes and oil analysis, I estimate I'm spending about $500 more per year than with a "regular changes, no analysis" alternative. If I added oil analysis to a petro change schedule, the cost difference would drop to about $350 per year. I'm getting some peace of mind, and I'll probably NOT need to bolt on a new turbo anytime during my ownership of the vehicle, which means another way to keep DC out from under my hood. I'll get to shut down 2 to 3 minutes sooner, multiple times per day, during the hot part of the summer by using 325 instead of 300 as my cue, and I won't have to walk away from my vehicle wondering if this is the day that fancy switch is going to malfunction and leave my engine running. I'll fire right up in the coldest weather, and not need to change my oil with the seasons. And if I keep my "worthless" vehicle 1 or 2 years longer before I get the itch, well, just how much would 35k in the stock market earn in that 2 years, anyway? A lot more than $500 X 10 years, I believe. So now who's being "stupid" with their money? (Answer: NOBODY. We're just making different choices. )
I'm completely happy with my choice. I fully understand that different driving patterns, exposure to different data, different past experiences, or different priorities might lead to a different choice. I feel no need to convert anyone; this is not religion or politics. But I also feel no need to call others "stupid", "suckers", or other names just because their decision in this matter is different than mine. Please return the favor! (most of you already do, and for that I thank you
#ad)
------------------
2001 ETH, QC, LWB, 4WD, 3. 54, SPA Pyro & Boost, K&N RE-880 w/foam pre-cleaner, ARE Z-series Cab-high shell, Rear ARB locker, and all kinds of synthetic fluids...
Originally posted by Sasquatch:
... she could market it as a product that reduces inner-thigh friction when her clients waddle along in Million Mom Marches; there'd be ample room to mount the bypass filters on those chassis. (... 'course who'd volunteer to take the "samples?")
Ouch! You're killing me! Now we're having the fun we should with this topic!
HC,
Great post.
The "Sucker born every minute" quote is so commonly used (usually in a VERY affable way) that it didn't even occur to me anybody'd really get bent out of shape over it (not suggesting YOU DID, mind you... )#ad
I think we should be able to poke a little fun at one another on this topic, and realize that it's all meant to be completely harmless teasing. I don't think anyone's out to wreak lasting psychic trauma, here. At least I'm not. I think I've pointed out that I've wasted enough money on my truck to float the national debt of half a dozen banana republics (with some left over... )
I'm a little less "tolerant" on the synthetic oil issue, because I was held hostage in an elevator once with a couple of "synthetic" fanatics dressed in golf pants and white patent leather shoes; they kept trying to force their literature on me, and ultimately I had to shoot my way out. (blowing smoke from gun barrel... )
If you're happy spending an additional $500 per year "for peace of mind" more power to you. Like I said, earlier, I think Amsoil users are probably a LOT MORE fastidious than most of us petro-users. Y'all probably help little, old ladies cross at busy intersections, too.
... and when have I ever said ANYTHING cynical about THAT...#ad
Great post.
The "Sucker born every minute" quote is so commonly used (usually in a VERY affable way) that it didn't even occur to me anybody'd really get bent out of shape over it (not suggesting YOU DID, mind you... )
#adI think we should be able to poke a little fun at one another on this topic, and realize that it's all meant to be completely harmless teasing. I don't think anyone's out to wreak lasting psychic trauma, here. At least I'm not. I think I've pointed out that I've wasted enough money on my truck to float the national debt of half a dozen banana republics (with some left over... )
I'm a little less "tolerant" on the synthetic oil issue, because I was held hostage in an elevator once with a couple of "synthetic" fanatics dressed in golf pants and white patent leather shoes; they kept trying to force their literature on me, and ultimately I had to shoot my way out. (blowing smoke from gun barrel... )
If you're happy spending an additional $500 per year "for peace of mind" more power to you. Like I said, earlier, I think Amsoil users are probably a LOT MORE fastidious than most of us petro-users. Y'all probably help little, old ladies cross at busy intersections, too.
... and when have I ever said ANYTHING cynical about THAT...
#adHC, you are right and BTW good post without bashing. I for one think that everyone has their own opinion on what is good for them, and I'll not try and change that. For me I have seen that there are some synthetics and some petro oils that are much better than the standard regular petro oils. I have run them at short oil drains and long drains and have my own opinion that a higher quality oil is the best. If I had to change my LE oil at short oil drains (and I don't) I would still have less wear than the regular oils do. If I did not know about LE, then I would use another oil like Amsoil or Royal Purple.
It makes me wonder why someone in the heavy duty industry would buy a $500,000 piece of equipment, not bargan for the price to be maybe $10,000 lower and then use the chepest oil that they can find. The smart ones do try and get the price lower and then use the best oil to keep it going for more hours than the cheep oil could do.
The same thing aplies to the $40,000 trucks that we are talking about here, but on a lower scale.
I'd bet that some of the guys out there could increase the tire pressure or not hotrod their trucks etc and save enough to pay for the best oil and change it more often.
We are nit picking here and I say to each his own. It's not a synthetic vs petro issue, it's a $ issue and what one wants to spend on their truck. Some think that they do not need to spend more on their truck and others do. In my 21 years in the oil industry, and dealing with thousands of customers, It's clear to me that the better oils will save the companies more $ than the cheeper oils will.
In the end some will still use the cheep oils and some will still use the best oils (sometimes high $)and that's fine with me. I do not have a web page, I do not sell directly to the members on this sight, my business is large commercial customers. My reason for being on this sight is to answer questions about oils (petro and synthetic) and add to the knowledge of the members here. My e-mail is regestered on this sight and If anyone has any questions about petro oils or synthetic oils I will try and answer them. I will not try and sell you one or the other but simply try and answer your questions.
Sincerely, Kevin
It makes me wonder why someone in the heavy duty industry would buy a $500,000 piece of equipment, not bargan for the price to be maybe $10,000 lower and then use the chepest oil that they can find. The smart ones do try and get the price lower and then use the best oil to keep it going for more hours than the cheep oil could do.
The same thing aplies to the $40,000 trucks that we are talking about here, but on a lower scale.
I'd bet that some of the guys out there could increase the tire pressure or not hotrod their trucks etc and save enough to pay for the best oil and change it more often.
We are nit picking here and I say to each his own. It's not a synthetic vs petro issue, it's a $ issue and what one wants to spend on their truck. Some think that they do not need to spend more on their truck and others do. In my 21 years in the oil industry, and dealing with thousands of customers, It's clear to me that the better oils will save the companies more $ than the cheeper oils will.
In the end some will still use the cheep oils and some will still use the best oils (sometimes high $)and that's fine with me. I do not have a web page, I do not sell directly to the members on this sight, my business is large commercial customers. My reason for being on this sight is to answer questions about oils (petro and synthetic) and add to the knowledge of the members here. My e-mail is regestered on this sight and If anyone has any questions about petro oils or synthetic oils I will try and answer them. I will not try and sell you one or the other but simply try and answer your questions.
Sincerely, Kevin
Maybe the deaf one will read this to the blind folks???
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers. cfm?uuid=44F00DBC-FC52-11D3-984A0004AC33EA57
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers. cfm?uuid=44F01326-FC52-11D3-984A0004AC33EA57
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers. cfm?uuid=44F01174-FC52-11D3-984A0004AC33EA57
Sorry, the one about advising against extending the drain intervals I read in a Big C publication is not mentioned in the FAQ... but you could always e-mail the powermaster:
powermaster@cummins.com
AND HERE'S ONE FOR THE GRASSY KNOLL CROWD!
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers. cfm?uuid=4C4DC616-FDBD-11D3-984A0004AC33EA57
Ps. LOVED THE WADDLING, CHASSIS MOUNT'N AND SAMPLING CRACK! TOO FUNNY! LMAO!
Max
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers. cfm?uuid=44F00DBC-FC52-11D3-984A0004AC33EA57
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers. cfm?uuid=44F01326-FC52-11D3-984A0004AC33EA57
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers. cfm?uuid=44F01174-FC52-11D3-984A0004AC33EA57
Sorry, the one about advising against extending the drain intervals I read in a Big C publication is not mentioned in the FAQ... but you could always e-mail the powermaster:
powermaster@cummins.com
AND HERE'S ONE FOR THE GRASSY KNOLL CROWD!
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers. cfm?uuid=4C4DC616-FDBD-11D3-984A0004AC33EA57
Ps. LOVED THE WADDLING, CHASSIS MOUNT'N AND SAMPLING CRACK! TOO FUNNY! LMAO!
Max
Last edited by a moderator:
OilMan,
That is the best post I have ever read of yours, and I agree with most of it!
HC,awesome!
Sasquatch,
I'll be backkkk!
One thing, Ask John Holmes how much trouble he had selling his Amsoiled, high mileaged, overacesserized test truck for new products.
None, they lined up!
Mine is not for sale.
That is the best post I have ever read of yours, and I agree with most of it!
HC,awesome!
Sasquatch,
I'll be backkkk!
One thing, Ask John Holmes how much trouble he had selling his Amsoiled, high mileaged, overacesserized test truck for new products.
None, they lined up!
Mine is not for sale.
Back to the original question: I live in Eastern NC, right in the middle of the fishing industry... Nothing work an engine harder than pushing tonnage through the water dragging trawl nets. Hence... all of these commercial fishing vessels have diesels (cummins is well represented), but none that I know of use synthetic oils (I will keep asking). If you talk with the local dealers and repair folks around here you'll find Shell Rotella T is the most popular diesel oil in this area, by far?
Now we might be technically ignorant in this area, but if something was better by a larger margin than Shell Rotella T... then these boys would be all over it like white on rice.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but thought I'd chime in. I'm using the best and changing it out every 5k... capt'n!
------------------
2001. 5, QC, 2500, 2wd, long-bed, 3. 54, 4 disc, all the stuff, heated leather, patriot blue over silver, stock4now!
a real "country cadilac"
Now we might be technically ignorant in this area, but if something was better by a larger margin than Shell Rotella T... then these boys would be all over it like white on rice.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but thought I'd chime in. I'm using the best and changing it out every 5k... capt'n!
------------------
2001. 5, QC, 2500, 2wd, long-bed, 3. 54, 4 disc, all the stuff, heated leather, patriot blue over silver, stock4now!
a real "country cadilac"
Pine Sap,
You have to remember change takes time. Some areas of the country take a LONG time!
There are SEVERAL, BILLION dollar oil companys out there. They rule the market.
Amsoil set the trend in 1972. Now the big boys are following. If Synthetics were wrong, noone else would be making them now. Gosh, Everyone is making them now! At least, their cheap version of synthetic.
A mechanic at work told me "As soon as the big construction companys switch, I'll switch" Guess what? The company we were working for started to do oil analysis. This past spring, Synthetics went into some of their equipment.
Slow but sure, people start to come around.
Why is progress so hard for some people to accept?
If something works,why change it? That must be the attitude around here. Right!!!! Those stock engines ran just fine, but you guys bombed the crap out of them any way!
Well, I bombed my oil to go along with my bombed engine!!!
Sometimes this argument reminds me of Liberals telling me why I should not own a Mini-14! No, it's worse! It is like the Chevy guys telling me the 6. 5 will run with my Cummins any day!
Oh, hey Sasquatch, I did the cost thing, I'm right under $500. That is with 5W-30,I could save more with the 15-40.
Oops. I just reread your cost post. I don't run a by-pass, but if I did, Add in a about $200 for the unit. But, I won't be changing filters as much, so I'll save about $75 there. I probaly won't need as much oil as before, so take off another $50.
Dang! Close enough to run the good stuff!
I bet you guys would drink beer out of plastic if it would save you a dime!
If I factor in fuel savings, I save a few hundred more. No biggy. Easy starts when its chilly out are nice too. Hey, you have heard the rest! When are you going to start listening?
Gene
[This message has been edited by MGM (edited 11-01-2000). ]
You have to remember change takes time. Some areas of the country take a LONG time!
There are SEVERAL, BILLION dollar oil companys out there. They rule the market.
Amsoil set the trend in 1972. Now the big boys are following. If Synthetics were wrong, noone else would be making them now. Gosh, Everyone is making them now! At least, their cheap version of synthetic.
A mechanic at work told me "As soon as the big construction companys switch, I'll switch" Guess what? The company we were working for started to do oil analysis. This past spring, Synthetics went into some of their equipment.
Slow but sure, people start to come around.
Why is progress so hard for some people to accept?
If something works,why change it? That must be the attitude around here. Right!!!! Those stock engines ran just fine, but you guys bombed the crap out of them any way!
Well, I bombed my oil to go along with my bombed engine!!!
Sometimes this argument reminds me of Liberals telling me why I should not own a Mini-14! No, it's worse! It is like the Chevy guys telling me the 6. 5 will run with my Cummins any day!
Oh, hey Sasquatch, I did the cost thing, I'm right under $500. That is with 5W-30,I could save more with the 15-40.
Oops. I just reread your cost post. I don't run a by-pass, but if I did, Add in a about $200 for the unit. But, I won't be changing filters as much, so I'll save about $75 there. I probaly won't need as much oil as before, so take off another $50.
Dang! Close enough to run the good stuff!
I bet you guys would drink beer out of plastic if it would save you a dime!
If I factor in fuel savings, I save a few hundred more. No biggy. Easy starts when its chilly out are nice too. Hey, you have heard the rest! When are you going to start listening?
Gene
[This message has been edited by MGM (edited 11-01-2000). ]
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
